Building b&w mask for color negative film

[Stephen Willard]

Currently I am using TMX 100 and HC110 for constructing my b&w mask. When properly washed, the film produces a reasonable neutral gray negative that will minimize any color shifts when sandwiched with a color negative.

I particular, I use 8x10 TMX 100 and cut it down to either 5x7 or 4x10. Unfortunately, TMX 100 is only now available in 4x5. So I am looking for another 8x10 b&w film/developer combination that will produce a neutral gray negative. It does not have to be perfectly neutral gray just as long as there is no evident cast. I can correct for any slight cast by adjusting the color head settings.

Does anyone know of such a combination of film and developer that will produce an approximate neutral gray negative?

[photobymike]

What is the end product you want to end up with? silver print? alt print? Scan the color negative and make a digital negative? It would be good for a contact print? have control over density spotting ect... I don't think a digital neg would do well in an enlarger but something to try. If you wanted a straight print ... i seem to remember from my wet days there was a special paper for printing from color negs.

[Michael Kadillak]

Have you tried Delta 100 in 8x10? It is Ilford's version of T Grain film in 100 speed.

I must tell you that when I hear of folks going through all of this extra effort for creating contrast masks I wonder if there is a way to cut to the chase and avoid it altogether. Sure would make life much simpler.

[Daniel Stone]

stephen does optical prints last time I read. Great, NO, BEAUTIFUL prints at that too!!!

check out his website:

http://www.stephenwillard.com


Stephen:

I've read multiple times that FP4+ has a pretty good reputation, when 8x10 TMX can't be found. Now that's its disc'd unless ordered by SO, looks like FP4+ anyhow.
I think most people were using something like HC-110, with higher dilutions(1:64 or so), but I can't remember exactly. Some mentioned dipping in a mild Farmer's Reducer bath to neutralize any residual color stain in the mask.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but just relaying some info I've read here and on other forums regarding this topic.

-Dan

[Stephen Willard]

Thanks Dan for your kind words.

Dan you are correct, I do all classic photography in the field and in the darkroom which sports a 10x10 enlarger using Kodak Portra 160 VC color negative film. With this film I can record up to 13 stops of light. A 13 stop dynamic range allows me to shoot scenes that would force most photographers to duck and hide. I do not use graduated filters, and I have become a lone shooter only because I embrace bold vivd light while my peers hide in the shadows. The bolder and more brilliant the light, the better it is for me. I can record detail from the deep shadows found in the land all the way up to those white billowing clouds.

I use extensive layers of light contrast mask and color contrast mask to paint light on to both film and paper to produce a rendering of what I saw and FELT. I do not do pictorial or nature photography. My work is expressive in vision, however, I do preserve the optical reality of the original scene, and I do almost no cropping of the negative. All my editing is done in the field with many revisits to the sight to get the correct light and atmospheric conditions I need to complete the image.

The sandwiches I make to control the print exposure process is a minimum of five layers, and I have built sandwiches (which I call composites) having as many as ten layers of film. If you go to my website, explode a thumbnail, and click on the Data button just underneath the enlarged image, you will find field data as well as printing data recorded there. At the bottom of the page you will see the color head settings used and the composite layers I used to print each photograph.

Thanks again....

[Stephen Willard]

Michael, you are correct that it takes work to make a mask, but that is part of the process that a photographic artist must go through, and it is no different then an artist who struggles to push pigment onto canvas with brushes. Each medium presents its own challenges to the artist.

Once all the masks have been constructed, it becomes very easy to print with a single exposure without having to do dogging and burning. You pay your dues up front and benefit later.

My problem now is finding a 8x10 b&w film and a developer that produces a neutral gray negative for building mask. Hence, this thread.

[Michael Kadillak]

Michael, you are correct that it takes work to make a mask, but that is part of the process that a photographic artist must go through, and it is no different then an artist who struggles to push pigment onto canvas with brushes. Each medium presents its own challenges to the artist.

Once all the masks have been constructed, it becomes very easy to print with a single exposure without having to do dogging and burning. You pay your dues up front and benefit later.

My problem now is finding a 8x10 b&w film and a developer that produces a neutral gray negative for building mask. Hence, this thread.

I found someone that is as deep in the water as I am with my photography. I get to Ft. Collins fairly regularly (my daughter just graduated from CSU and my son is a sophomore in the engineering school there) so I will give you a call so we can get together. I would love to see more of your process and your work and discuss this situation in more detail. I will PM you.

[Drew Wiley]

I've just run my first series of tests using FP4, which I have long used for Ciba and
simple b&w neg masking. Now I've done both interpositive and subsequent contrast
increase masks for color neg film. Haven't had a chance to plot the curves yet, but
visually both the step tablets and MacBeath chart on the master Portra 160VC neg look very good, with excellent gradation between the steps. The interpositive is dev
in ordinary HC-110 dil F. But the trick to a low contrast final mask I simply borrowed
from my DT technique with TM100, and it seems to work analogously with FP4. I take
the 1:3 HC-110 STOCK solution, add 20ml of 1% benzotriazole at a toe cutter, then
dilute this 1:31 for actual use. The interpositive is slightly overexp to get everything
on the straight line, then I dev it at 10min at 20C. The final mask contact printed from
this was dev in the very dilute HC-110 also for 10min, but next time I'll make a family
of curves at slightly different dev times. I tray dev. The exposure values are of course
subject to your light source, method of measurement, and type of diffusion. So at the
moment, this is how I intend to proceed, so I can save my 8x10 sheets of TM100 for
actual dye transfer work, where the masks perform a somewhat different function,
which would be harder to recalculate.

[Drew Wiley]

Stephen - forgot to mention that normally dev FP4 seems to have about 4cc magenta
left over that is hard to wash out. It's pretty minor and easy to balance out. A UV light
source will basically bleach it out; Farmer's won't, although a brief dip in Farmer's will
cut residual fog at the expense of full linearity. The benzotriazole toe-cutter I use seems to solve both problems. I'm pretty encouraged with the results, and intend to
start masking certain actual 8x10 negs for printing soon. FP4 is also less prone to
Newton rings than TMY, so this is a plus too.

[Drew Wiley]

One more trick I forgot to mention is that FP4 is essentially neutral gray on the back,
so if you choose to exposure through the back for extra diffusion, you end up with
similar pan characteristics. Sometimes its easier to maintain registraton this way than
using thicker diffusion sheets.