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Thread: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

  1. #1

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    Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Folks,

    I got bored a few days ago while reading all the posts about tripods, regarding who does what, who has what, and who thinks what is best, so I decided to take a few moments, review a few of my old engineering texts and notes, and I decided to write a small application to illustrate what happens when you have a tripod, a tripod head, a camera, and if you are so inclined, a bag of rocks hanging beneath your tripod's central mounting plate, especially when you put all those pieces together. This base application is identified as a vertical stability application that uses stacked objects within the simple math. This application can be turned into an elaborate three dimensional application, but that avenue happens to be beyond the scope of what I am trying to illustrate for many non technical users, an upcoming workshop tool, and users that simply might not care. Again, I am just trying to illustrate a very simple idea, yet complete with minor complex calculations for the group to play with during the Holiday Season, or whenever you happen to get bored.

    This application is an extremely simplistic two-dimensional center of gravity model that uses the object's weight and the object's height above grade level to determine the combined device's current center of gravity (COG), when you attach a tripod head, and a camera to the tripod. Grade level is identified as a flat plane that intersects the tip of each tripod nodal point, such as the tripod's pointed tips on a surveyor's tripod. This model should not be confused with calculating the combined object's center of mass. They are distinctly different ideas, and these two concepts are often confused, where many mistakenly consider the concepts to be one in the same, but strangely enough the combined object's center of mass can correlate to the combined object's center of gravity.

    The model assumes the following:

    1. the model is working in two dimensional space only;
    2. the tripod leg's tipped points are equidistant from each other;
    3. the center of gravity's projection is vertical and central throughout all stacked bodies;
    4. the original datum point is considered to be the plane that runs through the tripod's tipped points.

    The model is designed to do the following:

    1. indicate the center of gravity for your tripod at a certain height above grade level;
    2. indicate the revised center of gravity when you place your tripod head onto the tripod;
    3. indicate the revised center of gravity when you place your camera onto the tripod head;
    4. indicate the revised center of gravity when you use a bag of heavy objects suspended from your tripods center post, or not;
    5. indicate the revised center of gravity when you move the bag of heavy objects in a vertical motion along the center of gravity's projection.

    The model does not account for any of the following:

    1. the tilt within the tripod's head;
    2. the center of gravity's projection shift as the camera shifts off center;
    3. the transfer of any object's weight in a lateral direction;
    4. the weight of any lens attached to the camera body;
    5. any three dimensional center of gravity aberrations.

    So, think of the model this way, while using stacked boxes…

    1. I have a flat table, and I place a box onto the flat table, where I measure the box's height and weight, and I calculate the box's natural center of gravity.
    2. I find a second smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, fill the box with marbles, and weigh the smaller box.
    3. I place, and centrally locate, this smaller box inside the original box.
    4. I suspend the smaller box filled with marbles by a string above the floor of the original box.
    5. I centrally locate the suspended box.
    6. I measure the distance from the bottom of the original box to the bottom of the second smaller box filled with marbles.
    7. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combined entity of boxes and weights.
    8. I find a third smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, and I weigh the smaller box.
    9. I place, and centrally locate, this third smaller box on top of the original box.
    10. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combined entity of three boxes and weights.
    11. I find a fourth smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, and I weigh the smaller box.
    12. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combination of four boxes and weights.

    The three external boxes represent the tripod, the tripod head, the camera, and lastly the internal box of marbles represents the bag of rocks, suspended from the center of the tripod.

    There are Four Factors that Affect Stability:

    1. Center of Gravity: A lower center of gravity generates a more stabile object...

    2. Support Base Stance: A wider stance produces a more stabile object...

    3. Center of Gravity Projection: When this projection falls outside the support base, balance will be lost...

    4. Weight: It is more difficult to move a heavier, more massive object, as per Newton's Second Law.

    The model will illustrate what happens to the combined entity's center of gravity, when you modify the weight, and height of each item. So, if you think a heavier tripod will lower your center of gravity, check it out, or if you think that adding rocks to a bag will do the job just as effectively, check it out, or if you think that adding a heavier tripod head to your tripod will help, check it out.

    As a side note, and if the Engineers within the group would like to take this model further and, or they find a basic error in my logic, please feel free to correct the application as you see fit, since it is not locked. I tried to break the model, where it seemed to work properly, but then again who knows until it happens. Have fun, and take a look at whether your assumptions are correct, or not…

    jim k

  2. #2

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    Aug 2008
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    Southland, New Zealand
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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Cabin fever?

  3. #3

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    May 2006
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,102

    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Dear David,

    Yes, combined with a terrible frigging winter cold that I cannot give away to anyone...

    Then again, you are enjoying summer, so you cannot receive it.

    jim k

  4. #4
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chillicothe Missouri USA
    Posts
    3,074

    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Some of the tripods built by photographers over a hundred years ago served their real function better than many of today's tripods designed by mere engineers.

  5. #5
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    I'm not much concerned that the thing will fall over. I'm more concerned that it doesn't move (vibrate) when the shutter goes off.

  6. #6

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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Dear ic-racer,

    Stability reduces vibration considerably...

    jim k

  7. #7
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    I can see how it reduces low frequency movement (like swaying, etc.) but what about the high frequency movement?

  8. #8

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    Jun 2005
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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Quote Originally Posted by jim kitchen View Post
    Folks,

    I got bored a few days ago while reading all the posts about tripods, regarding who does what, who has what, and who thinks what is best, so I decided to take a few moments, review a few of my old engineering texts and notes, and I decided to write a small application to illustrate what happens when you have a tripod, a tripod head, a camera, and if you are so inclined, a bag of rocks hanging beneath your tripod's central mounting plate, especially when you put all those pieces together. This base application is identified as a vertical stability application that uses stacked objects within the simple math. This application can be turned into an elaborate three dimensional application, but that avenue happens to be beyond the scope of what I am trying to illustrate for many non technical users, an upcoming workshop tool, and users that simply might not care. Again, I am just trying to illustrate a very simple idea, yet complete with minor complex calculations for the group to play with during the Holiday Season, or whenever you happen to get bored.

    This application is an extremely simplistic two-dimensional center of gravity model that uses the object's weight and the object's height above grade level to determine the combined device's current center of gravity (COG), when you attach a tripod head, and a camera to the tripod. Grade level is identified as a flat plane that intersects the tip of each tripod nodal point, such as the tripod's pointed tips on a surveyor's tripod. This model should not be confused with calculating the combined object's center of mass. They are distinctly different ideas, and these two concepts are often confused, where many mistakenly consider the concepts to be one in the same, but strangely enough the combined object's center of mass can correlate to the combined object's center of gravity.

    The model assumes the following:

    1. the model is working in two dimensional space only;
    2. the tripod leg's tipped points are equidistant from each other;
    3. the center of gravity's projection is vertical and central throughout all stacked bodies;
    4. the original datum point is considered to be the plane that runs through the tripod's tipped points.

    The model is designed to do the following:

    1. indicate the center of gravity for your tripod at a certain height above grade level;
    2. indicate the revised center of gravity when you place your tripod head onto the tripod;
    3. indicate the revised center of gravity when you place your camera onto the tripod head;
    4. indicate the revised center of gravity when you use a bag of heavy objects suspended from your tripods center post, or not;
    5. indicate the revised center of gravity when you move the bag of heavy objects in a vertical motion along the center of gravity's projection.

    The model does not account for any of the following:

    1. the tilt within the tripod's head;
    2. the center of gravity's projection shift as the camera shifts off center;
    3. the transfer of any object's weight in a lateral direction;
    4. the weight of any lens attached to the camera body;
    5. any three dimensional center of gravity aberrations.

    So, think of the model this way, while using stacked boxes…

    1. I have a flat table, and I place a box onto the flat table, where I measure the box's height and weight, and I calculate the box's natural center of gravity.
    2. I find a second smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, fill the box with marbles, and weigh the smaller box.
    3. I place, and centrally locate, this smaller box inside the original box.
    4. I suspend the smaller box filled with marbles by a string above the floor of the original box.
    5. I centrally locate the suspended box.
    6. I measure the distance from the bottom of the original box to the bottom of the second smaller box filled with marbles.
    7. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combined entity of boxes and weights.
    8. I find a third smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, and I weigh the smaller box.
    9. I place, and centrally locate, this third smaller box on top of the original box.
    10. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combined entity of three boxes and weights.
    11. I find a fourth smaller box, and I measure the height of this box, and I weigh the smaller box.
    12. I calculate the revised center of gravity for this combination of four boxes and weights.

    The three external boxes represent the tripod, the tripod head, the camera, and lastly the internal box of marbles represents the bag of rocks, suspended from the center of the tripod.

    There are Four Factors that Affect Stability:

    1. Center of Gravity: A lower center of gravity generates a more stabile object...

    2. Support Base Stance: A wider stance produces a more stabile object...

    3. Center of Gravity Projection: When this projection falls outside the support base, balance will be lost...

    4. Weight: It is more difficult to move a heavier, more massive object, as per Newton's Second Law.

    The model will illustrate what happens to the combined entity's center of gravity, when you modify the weight, and height of each item. So, if you think a heavier tripod will lower your center of gravity, check it out, or if you think that adding rocks to a bag will do the job just as effectively, check it out, or if you think that adding a heavier tripod head to your tripod will help, check it out.

    As a side note, and if the Engineers within the group would like to take this model further and, or they find a basic error in my logic, please feel free to correct the application as you see fit, since it is not locked. I tried to break the model, where it seemed to work properly, but then again who knows until it happens. Have fun, and take a look at whether your assumptions are correct, or not…

    jim k
    Did you say you got bored reading posts about tripods? No wonder, I got bored when not even 1/5 through this post...

  9. #9

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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Dear ic-racer,

    Good question...

    High frequency movement is a product of a combined unit's natural resonance, and when you increase the weight of the combined unit, you reduce the higher frequency resonance within the unit, which happens to be an applied derivative when you implement Newton's Second Law. For example, if you happen to know what the camera's natural harmonic frequency is through experimentation, you can modify that natural frequency by adding weight to the camera body, therefore, lowering the camera's natural frequency to a point where its vibration could be insignificant, compared to the object that supports the camera body when you are within an environment that can trigger the unit's natural vibration. This is true when the object is isolated alone, and not considered to be a part of a combined unit, such as the tripod, the tripod head, and the camera body with lens.

    Modifying a complete unit, to isolate high frequency vibration and oscillation from affecting the complete unit can be accomplished, but it requires knowledge from experimentation, especially if you happen to know the source of the high frequency vibration, the source's harmonic frequency, and the combined unit's harmonic frequency. One of the items, usually the latter unsecured item, will pop off the vibrating floor like a small rocket once it achieve's its natural harmonic frequency. Unfortunately, this issue is outside the scope of this simple application, where the answers and calculations lay inside the science of harmonics. Harmonic vibration problems can be solved, but not with this simple illustration, although one could modify this application to include harmonics, as you lower the center of gravity and combined weight of the complete unit.

    jim k

  10. #10

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    Re: Tripods, and a Center of Gravity Calculation...

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS View Post
    Did you say you got bored reading posts about tripods? No wonder, I got bored when not even 1/5 through this post...
    Dear GPS,

    I would too...

    jim k

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