I need one last lens...

[Policar]

I've just started shooting 4x5 (so far so difficult) and have already realized I need (or at least want) a longer lens than I have; it will mostly be for deep focus landscapes. My current kit is:

90mm f6.8 Grandagon-N (too wide and too dim; I don't find it very useful--yet)
135mm Apo-Sironar-S (wonderful! but too much fall-off)
180mm Apo-Sironar-S (wonderful!)

I want a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S because the other lenses of this brand are just great. While they're only medium sharp, the color rendition is so perfect. I've never seen better-corrected lenses, and this baffles me because they only have six elements, but whatever. They produce the most beautiful colors and nice microcontrast and the out of focus areas are perfectly corrected.

I considered a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S, but they seem to sell used for about $1000, way more than twice what I spent for the others individually. I've heard the Fuji f9 lens is great, but I'm wary to switch brands after having finally found good lenses. The 240mm Caltar II-N is apparently made by Rodenstock, would that be a good choice? I know it's "big" but it's not too big for me.

Will this match up to the Apo-Sironar-S? What I care about, most of all, is color rendition, microcontrast, and just that beautiful perfect look. I figure I'll get less coverage and less sharp edges, but on 4x5 will that even matter? Or should I splurge for the 240mm Sironar-S and never second guess the lens when I use it? Obviously that would be my top choice.

[Mark Stahlke]

I want a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S...
...and never second guess the lens when I use it

This looks like the answer to your question. I'm sure you'll get fine results with any of the 240mm lenses but you'll always wonder. I think you should get the lens you want and not look back.

[Scotty230358]

I would agree with Mark. If the AOP Sironar meets all your expectations then go for it.

[rdenney]

The Caltar II-N is an APO Sironar N. The newer S model is a new design with wider coverage. Maybe if you look real close at a very large print you might find a noticeable difference in performance within the coverage range, but if you did, you'd be more observant than many. I think you'll find that with a 240mm lens, coverage is not an issue, unless you use a telephoto design (and those mostly start at 270mm).

And if you bought a used APO-Sironar-N (whether or not labeled as a Caltar or Sinaron), and it didn't meet your expectations, you could probably sell it for what you paid for it. If it works out, you've save hundreds of dollars. If it doesn't, you're out pennies at most.

Large-format plasmats like the Sironar may only have six elements, but they are not constrained by the requirement to clear a mirror box, nor are they expected to have f/2.8 maximum aperture, so they can be optimized more easily. Their near symmetry helps eliminate geometric distortion almost automatically, so that resolves another issue that constraints designs for shorter lenses that have to fit in front of a mirror box.

Rick "who observes the same boost in performance from double-biogon designs like the Grandagon and Super Angulon, too" Denney

[Dan Fromm]

Rick, what is a "double biogon?"

I ask because I have a couple of Biogons lying around, also a Super Angulon (and two clones), a jes' plain Grandagon and an Apo-Grandy. I just don't see how a pair of Biogons makes one SA or one Grandy or one Apo-Grandy. I also don't see what good half a Biogon is. FWIW, I have half a Grandagon in the drawer and its useless as is.

[rdenney]

Rick, what is a "double biogon?"

Maybe I'm labeling it wrong, but I got it from Kingslake's description of the first Super Angulon, which took two biogons (of course, there were a couple of designs that went by that name and I don't remember which one he was referring to) and opposed them to correct for distortion. I'll have to dig the book up again and check my usage.

Rick "Kingslake is around here somewhere..." Denney

[Two23]

I want a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S because the other lenses of this brand are just great. While they're only medium sharp, the color rendition is so perfect. I've never seen better-corrected lenses, and this baffles me because they only have six elements, but whatever. They produce the most beautiful colors and nice microcontrast and the out of focus areas are perfectly corrected.

Generally speaking, the fewer elements a lens has the more apt it is to have good conrast. And, less flare.


Kent in SD

[Richard K.]

I want a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S because the other lenses of this brand are just great.
I considered a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S, but they seem to sell used for about $1000

Or should I splurge for the 240mm Sironar-S and never second guess the lens when I use it? Obviously that would be my top choice.

Seeing as the excellent 240mm Apo Sironar S sells for $2319.95 at a famous mid-continent store we use and just under $2000 at a famous NYC store, $1000 doesn't seem out of line to me! I paid $1600 for my copy (LN in box) but that seems to be my modus operandi: buy high and sell low...
Just by coincidence I may be selling mine in the near future (I need something to cover 10x12 in that focal length) so keep your eye open - BUT I very much doubt I'll offer it for less than$1000 so I guess eBay will decide its current worth...

[GPS]

...
My current kit is:

90mm f6.8 Grandagon-N (too wide and too dim; I don't find it very useful--yet)
135mm Apo-Sironar-S (wonderful! but too much fall-off)
180mm Apo-Sironar-S (wonderful!)

I want a 240mm Apo-Sironar-S because the other lenses of this brand are just great. While they're only medium sharp, ...

Only medium sharp - is that your opinion about Apo-Sironar -S lenses?

[neil poulsen]

GPS: I think he means that the "other" lenses may only be medium sharp.

POLICAR: I like your focal lengths. (I started with similar focal lengths of 121mm Super Angulon and 180mm.) I especially like the 180. For me, 210mm is a little long. Further, I think that a 240mm, in addition to the 180mm, serves a useful purpose. For example, the 180mm is a little short for portraiture. But, the 240mm makes a good portrait lens.

You will have no problem with coverage using a 240mm Plasmat on a 4x5.