Uneven development - Pyroact HD with JOBO 1520 & 120 film

[eman]

Thank you, I will certainly go back to agitation every minute.

Yes - "one agitation" means turning the drum down and up. I usually turn the drum around its rotation axis a bit after every inversion.

I wanted to try semi-stand to get stronger effect on highlights (saving them). But probably JOBO is not really suitable for that.

I'd start with 5 secs agitation every minute as 1 inversion is not enough.

[/QUOTE]My fixing times - I found that longer times are needed to completely wash away the magenta colored dyes with Delta 100 & 400 films (and also TMax films which I do not use now). Even with fresh fixer and rigorous agitation I find that 5 minutes will leave a magenta base on the films.[/QUOTE]

That really surprises me. How often do you agitate in the fixer?
A lot of films have a color to it even after 5 mins of fixing. Plus x is blue-ish, tri-x is purplish and with tmax there's barely any color left, if any, after 5 mins fixing. So I'd look at your agitation as a possible culprit there.

[Matus Kalisky]

- eman -

1 agitation cycle in my case means 4 complete inversions, not 1.

I do not really understand your comment concerning the agitation. So should there be some color left after 5 minutes of fixing or should there be not?

During fixing I agitate with 4 inversions every minute.

- Brian -

(concerning the edge imprints) thanks, I see. Still it makes me wondering why they are nearly gone after development with FP4+, but not with Delta 100 & 400.

[sanking]

I do not really understand your comment concerning the agitation. So should there be some color left after 5 minutes of fixing or should there be not?

During fixing I agitate with 4 inversions every minute.

Fixing with a normal strength fixer for 5 minutes of films like TMY-2, Tmax-100, Delta 100 and Delta 400 is insufficient in my experience to remove the magenta coloration. I normally place these films in a 1% solution of sodium sulfite for 10 minutes after fixing and this completely remove the magenta color. Hypo Clear should also work fine for clearing the dye. If the magenta dye is not completely cleared it can look like uneven staining from the developer. It is best to clear the film immediately after fixing but it is possible to do so some months after processing and drying should you find it necessary to do so.

Sandy King

[eman]

That's interesting Sandy. I don't have that problem w/any films here and I do get a wide variety of them through the door.
A while back I processed a large amount of 8x10 TXP in D-76. When I looked at the stack of film before sleeving it, I noticed a strong purplish color but individually each sheet wasn't that purple. Fearing my fixer had done something odd, I re-fixed all of it (major hassle) using hypo clear both times and there wasn't any difference afterwards.
Since then I don't worry about it. 1 gallon of 1:4 film fix will do 60 rolls of film (according to Kodak) and I mark off each roll on the jug. If I go beyond that limitation, by even 1 roll, there will be a marked increase in the purplish color, but nothing uneven, and no amount of hypo clearing will fix that. Only re-fixing with fresh fix will correct that.
That leads me to a question I have which is, do you find that the amount of color left after a 5 min. fix will interfere or impede the effects/benefits of the pyrocat hd stain?
Eric

[sanking]

That's interesting Sandy. I don't have that problem w/any films here and I do get a wide variety of them through the door.
A while back I processed a large amount of 8x10 TXP in D-76. When I looked at the stack of film before sleeving it, I noticed a strong purplish color but individually each sheet wasn't that purple. Fearing my fixer had done something odd, I re-fixed all of it (major hassle) using hypo clear both times and there wasn't any difference afterwards.
Since then I don't worry about it. 1 gallon of 1:4 film fix will do 60 rolls of film (according to Kodak) and I mark off each roll on the jug. If I go beyond that limitation, by even 1 roll, there will be a marked increase in the purplish color, but nothing uneven, and no amount of hypo clearing will fix that. Only re-fixing with fresh fix will correct that.
That leads me to a question I have which is, do you find that the amount of color left after a 5 min. fix will interfere or impede the effects/benefits of the pyrocat hd stain?
Eric

Eric,

Perhaps the fixer I use contributes to the problem. It is a formula called TF-3 from the Film Developing Cookbook, but so far as I can see the strength of a working solution seems about normal compared to other commercial formulas. Also, I use the fixer as long as it tests okay with a Hypo check so perhaps in some cases it becomes too weak to remove the magenta dye, but then again five minutes is not enough in my experience to remove the magenta dye even with fresh fixer.

The magenta dye itself is not a problem for staining developers so long as it is removed evenly. This would be true with most forms of development where the developer has free flow on both sides of the film. However, with rotary processing in tubes the developer generally does not have good flow over the base side of the film and this is where you would see uneven removal of the dye.

Sandy

[Ken Lee]

I use TF-3 also, and have to remove the stain afterwards. I also tried some Photographer's Formulary TF-4, and it behaves the same way.

(TF-4 is not odorless either, but that's another matter).

On Sandy's advice, I added a few grams of Sodium Sulfite per liter, to the developer itself, and that removes the color entirely. However, it also lessens the staining properties of the developer if I understand correctly. The developer still tans, but it stains less, according to how much Sodium Sulfite you add.

I tried distilled water, thinking that the color might be from my well water, but that didn't solve the problem for me.

[Matus Kalisky]

Interesting. I have some Kodak Hypo clearing agent - I guess I will give it a try to wash the magenta dyes away after fixing. Still - I am wondering whether is any practical difference between fixing the film longer instead of shorter fixing and additional washing with Sodium Sulfite.

On the side note - once I will be getting a fresh Pyrocat HD from Photo Formulary will definitely get the TF-3 too - the Ilford fixer is quite smelly (though I am not sure wheter the TF-3 can be used for fixing the paper).

[sanking]

I use TF-3 also, and have to remove the stain afterwards. I also tried some Photographer's Formulary TF-4, and it behaves the same way.

(TF-4 is not odorless either, but that's another matter).

On Sandy's advice, I added a few grams of Sodium Sulfite per liter, to the developer itself, and that removes the color entirely. However, it also lessens the staining properties of the developer if I understand correctly. The developer still tans, but it stains less, according to how much Sodium Sulfite you add.

I tried distilled water, thinking that the color might be from my well water, but that didn't solve the problem for me.

Be very careful not to add to much sulfite to the developer itself. It will not only lessen the stain, but if you add too much it will eliminate the stain entirely. I forgot exactly how much sulfite is needed to completely kill the stain but it is a relatively small amount, about 4X-5X the amount that is in the working solution that is released from the sodium metabisulfite in the stock solution. For that reason I would strongly recommend that you remove the magenta stain in a post fixing step where you soak the film in a sulfite or hypo clean agent. This will not lessen the stain much, if any.

Sandy

[Ken Lee]

Wonderful - Thanks !!

[Matus Kalisky]

How strong should the Hypo agent be for the post-fixing clearing? How long? How much film per volume can be washed? thanks.