Horseman 45FA vs. Master Technika

[El Topo]

Hi all,

Here's a question for you savvy users from a LF beginner. I'm about to purchase my first LF camera, which I want to last for maaaaaany years. The options come down to a brand new Horseman 45FA or a Linhof Master Technika from 1980 (seller assures it's pristine and recently checked). 30 Years old seems a lot to someone without experience with this cameras......but maybe it's not.

Budget aside, which one would you go for??. I'll be shooting portraits, urban landscapes and some natural landscapes too.

Help much appreciated....

[Mark Woods]

I bought my 1960's V8 Deardorff used 2 years ago and it was a studio camera that had been well used (scratches, etc.) but well maintained. Not a beauty, but works great. Old is often a state of mind. ;-)

[Oren Grad]

The standard advice here is that for most users, the first LF camera they buy is not the one they settle on for the long run. Every camera involves lots of compromises, and without some experience it's hard to know for sure which will suit you best.

That said, in a nutshell, compared to the Technika, the Horseman is substantially smaller and lighter but has restricted movements and bellows draw, a more restricted range of lenses that can be mounted, and more cramped controls.

The Master Technika also has a rangefinder. With an accessory viewfinder and grip, appropriate cams for the lenses, and lots of arm and shoulder strength, it can be used for hand-held work.

As for which I'd recommend as a first LF camera for a beginner, the answer is neither. I'd spend much less money, buy a basic wood-field camera, and use it for a while. That may be fine; and if not, you'll know in what specific ways it falls short and can better understand which alternatives might make the most sense for you.

[El Topo]

You are very right Mark. Like with people, old is indeed often a state of mind...

The standard advice here is that for most users, the first LF camera they buy is not the one they settle on for the long run. Every camera involves lots of compromises, and without some experience it's hard to know for sure which will suit you best.

.......

As for which I'd recommend as a first LF camera for a beginner, the answer is neither. I'd spend much less money, buy a basic wood-field camera, and use it for a while. That may be fine; and if not, you'll know in what specific ways it falls short and can better understand which alternatives might make the most sense for you.

That sounds like a very wise piece of advice Oren Grad. I'll surely keep it in mind.

Should I decide to go for the Horseman though.....does it have a rotating back (or a similar mechanism) to switch from horizontal to portraits?. That's something I'd really like from my first camera!!

Thanks again

[Jim Rhoades]

The Horseman back unclips and you switch it to whatever position you want. It does not rotate like a Linhof. And that is just one of many reasons why it weights half of a Linhof.

I had a HD model, no back movements and rubber coated aluminum. A bit lighter than the FA. It was a very light and much tougher camera than the Linhof V I replaced it with. I think that the Horseman is a better camera for back packing and any high intensity travel. I tour with a motorcycle a lot and found the HD perfect for this type of work.

That said I did buy a Linhof V when I could afford it. It can handle more lenses and other options than a Horseman. Better for me in the long run as I'm getting to old for back packing. But it only travels in my car. I use a Crown Graphic on the bike now.

If your young and going to beat the snot out of your camera buy the Horseman.

[Oren Grad]

Jim has already explained the back.

If you don't mind fiddly little controls and limited movements, and use only lenses in the wide-to-normal range - say, 75mm to 210mm - the 45FA is a perfectly reasonable camera. The combination of small size, relatively light weight and ruggedness is a big plus.

I have a Horseman VH, which is more or less the same camera except with a 6x9cm revolving back and a handful of other minor functional differences. It's very sturdy and has served me well overall. But IMO the basic design, which goes back many generations to the original Horseman 6x9cm press cameras, is pushing its limits with 4x5. I prefer something with a little more breathing room for the bigger format.

But as the saying goes, YMMV. Don't sweat it too much - pick something that appeals to you, and go have fun!

[Richard Wasserman]

I have no experience with the Linhof, but I use and very much like a Horseman 45FA. It is compact, lightweight and for most of what I do has plenty of movements. I am mainly using it in urban settings and use a binocular viewer so I don't need to have my head under a darkcloth which allows me to not be isolated from, and to keep an eye on the environment I'm in. I use lenses from 90-240mm. One of my favorite photographers, Mark Power, also uses an FA. http://www.markpower.co.uk/.

[Frank Petronio]

If you indeed want a camera for "many years" then approach it like finding a wife. Date a bunch, have fun, try big and little ones, be a bit promiscuous. It's fun. And if one really clicks, keep it.

[El Topo]

Thanks Jim and Oren, for the useful advice

Richard, the reason why I'm precisely looking at a Horseman 45FA is Mark Powers . I met him at a Magnum workshop in Barcelona a year ago and he told me that's he's favorite choice. No that my pictures are going to get any closer to what he does....but I'm pretty much in the same photographic style.

Frank, I'm going to write down that piece of advice an stick it in my refrigerator, hahaha.

One last question (again, remember I'm starting in this world and am a complete neophite). The Linhof comes calibrated with "cams" (not a clue what that is or what the are used for), while the Horseman comes "out of the box". Do I need those cams for the Horseman too?. What else would I need to purchase for the Horseman (which is going up in the list) apart from a lense and lenseboard??

Thanks for your patience guys.....

[Brian Ellis]

Cams are used when you're using the Linhof as a rangefinder camera rather than composing with the ground glass, which pretty much means when you're hand-holding rather than putting the camera on a tripod. Goes back to the days when press photographers and some other types used the rangefinder a lot. Today most people use Linhof Technikas as view cameras and compose on the ground glass. Cams are unnecessary when the camera is used that way. The Horseman doesn't have rangefinder capability so it doesn't take cams.

As for things that actually fit on or in the Horseman and needed to use it, as opposed to non-camera accessories like a light meter, all you'd need to use the camera is a lens board and a film holder with film in it.

The Horseman is a somewhat limiting camera because of the short bellows. It is IMHO a poor choice as your first camera. The equipment we use has a major effect on how and what we photograph. You're almost certainly going to find that you photograph somewhat different subjects in different ways with 4x5 than you have with smaller formats. By purchasing the Horseman you'll be limiting yourself to using a normal lens no longer than about 210mm, which is about the equivalent of 70-80mm with a 35mm camera. I'd find that very limiting in 35mm and I'd find it limiting in 4x5. Maybe you wouldn't but you won't know until you have some experience.

If you were an experienced LF photographer, knew that weight was extremely important to you because you took the camera on long hikes, and knew through your experience that you never found the need for a longer lens than can be used on the Horseman, I'd say go for it. But that doesn't seem to be the case.