Ether in the House ... Wet Plate question

[Monty McCutchen]

The fact that Ether HAS exploded somewhere in the past, at some time in the past is a surprise to no one. So has gasoline. So has natural gas and much more frequently I might add and yet we continue to run our lives around both in many locals. To connect what happened to your undergraduate lab to a modern day wet plate artist and the variance in dosages that both are possibly working under, to say nothing of all the potential reasons outside of the inherent characteristics of ether that may have led to said explosions is careless and misleading. To try to avoid those huge gaps in discussion with the broad stroke of I'm a chemist doesn't negate the fact that there are still huge gaps in connecting the two. Yes the ether and the rest of the chemistry of wet plate should be respected, well labeled and above all practiced with care and a high level of organization but no it should not be feared as the next coming of a nuclear meltdown as some would seem to have you believe in this thread.

This thread speaks more to the various poster's world view on whether the sky is falling or not than it does to whether or not ether/wet plate or numerous other photographic practices are safe or not.

And yes Steven is right if you really can't get past this in either your own mind or your working methodology then there are other methods that work in wet plate besides Ether that work very well. Let that be the guide much more than stories of doom that undoubtedly have occurred over the course of time within other fields of work. Having been involved in wet plate for over 8 years now I have yet to hear of a wet plate artist having blown up his house, basement, garage etc. Now that doesn't mean it hasn't happened but believe me if it does the wet plate community will be the first to be discussing the why's, how's and should've, could've and why didn't we's.

Be smart, read, and most of all get to making some plates, it's incredibly fun whether you use ether or not

Monty

Another chemist here with the same warning as all the other chemists. DO NOT USE OR STORE ETHER. It is a fabulous solvent - but there must be other possibilities. I saw the aftermath of an underfloor explosion in my undergraduate lab - heavy ether seeping down the waste pipes blew the whole lab up in the middle of the night. The idea that ether generally has additives to stabilise it is completely false.

[Kerik Kouklis]

^^What Monty said.^^

[Struan Gray]

In a class of twenty undergraduates using a few hundred milliliters of ether for an extraction there is *always* one who leaves their bunsen burner on, no matter how many times you tell them not to. Always. Safety in this case just means walking round the room and reminding people how to do things. On the net, with a stranger, you can't do that, and it can be hard to tread the right line between instilling paranoia and encouraging exploration.

The point is that handling ether like gasoline (or acetone, or xylene, or other common flammable solvents you may have met) will put you at risk. You can throw a lit cigarette into a newly-made pool of gasoline and the biggest risk is that an anti-smoking auror will haul you in front of the Wizamot. Ether will creep along the bench, across the floor, under the door, and detonate off a glow worm out in the garden. Well, maybe not, but almost.

Being timid with chemicals is as dangerous as being gung-ho. But not all chemicals are the same, and ether is one that experience has shown often leads to accidents. I would happily do ether-based wetplate in my home, but it trips my cautionometer, not as badly as, say, mercury-intensification or using HF to etch glass, but badly enough that I would think hard about my equipment, environment and procedures.

SteveKarr is a big boy, and can make his own mind up. I'd just like him to keep his eyebrows and fingers intact.

[Steven Tribe]

The source of my lab ether explosion was found to be an adjoining laboratory with some experienced post-docs - the piping ran under our lab. In my short life with chemistry I met two experienced teachers/professors with ether explosion damage. One who could just see out of one eye and focus at around 20cm with a specially built lens and another with considerable facial scarring. Protection goggles are a must. Ether's weight is main reason it is more dangerous than other organic solvents.

[rguinter]

Question: Which ether is used in the collodion plate process?

I'm not familiar with the collodion plate process. But I am a certified industrial hygienist (CIH) with many years of lab safety experience. The word ether refers to any chemical with the following structure R-C-O-C-R, with the ether bond being the oxygen with a carbon either side.

So which ether is used in the collodion process. i.e., dimethyl ether, diethyl ether, etc. Each has its own specific parameters but the ether bond is always very unstable in the presence of atmospheric oxygen.

Bob G.

[Steven Tribe]

I am sure commercially available "ether" is plain and simple dimethyl ether.
The university department I was in should be considered safety oriented, by the way. They were the first to synthesis vitamin C and did the development work for a certain project in the early 40's with production and differential diffusion of uranium hexafluoride for isotope separation - not without hazards.

[eddie]

careful steven.......

we use diethyl ether.

it requires the correct ether and stabilizers or you get wacky stuff happening....

[billschwab]

I too am with Monty.

[Brook Martin]

Somewhere on this form there is a thread about pyro developers full of dire warnings, crazy claims and casting of aspersions towards any who would use such ungodly dangerous stuff that will certainly harm everyone in the neighborhood. Is pyro nasty stuff? Of course. Can it be handled safely? Yep.

I dont think advanced degrees count as evidence of perfect safety procedure. I was working in a major research and analytical lab when a senior scientist (PHD and everything) dropped a half full, uncapped bottle of sulfuric acid in a stairwell. The whole 4 story building was evacuated for a day. Sometimes smart people do dumb things.

If a photographer chooses to work in wet plate they owe it to them selves and anyone living with them to do their research, put together procedures and follow them. Reading unsubstantiated claims on the internet does not count as research.

I found my biggest problem with ether was the sensitivity I developed to it. My wife could smell it on my breath 2 days after working in my dark box. I decided if I couldnt get it under control, I would give up the process. A proper VOC respirator in the field and better than adequate ventilation in the home darkroom solved the problem.

[Drew Wiley]

Comparing pryo to ether is ludicrous. Pyro isn't explosive, and to my knowledge isn't
used for the manufacture of illegal substances, nor is it an anesthetic. Obviously, it
can be handled intelligently, but does that constitute legally doing so, or being in compliance with insurance, fire codes, etc? I'd want to know first.