Ether in the House ... Wet Plate question

[SteveKarr]

Hi everyone,
Well setting up my darkroom in a 2nd bedroom of the new apartment was going well ... Until now.

As I place the sink in it's spot I look around and see many possible spark points. If I pour a plate in the sink can ignition come from the:

1) air conditioner to the lower left ( I live in AZ where 10 months a year you run that sucker)
2) film freezer under the sink to the right
3) at the back right of the room a thru wall fan (can't see it in the pic)

I won't be vacuuming or running the enlarger so no worries there. Ha!

I may pour 10 8x10 plates in a shooting, is that enough ether in the air for problems? I do 50% ether 50% Everclear.

The last place I was doing plates the owner was also a chemist and was super afraid of sparks from brush-type motors igniting the ether.

So how true is this and what can I do in an apartment (no holes in the walls for a vapor hood) to prevent problems.

I am also making a Darkbox I could set up in the front room, but same exact stuff is there too.

Thanks for reading this far,
Steve

[Glenn Thoreson]

Ether is one of the most explosive vapors on the planet. Alcohol vapors are nasty, and it burns with an almost invisible flame. Without a really good fume hood, I would not advise working with that stuff in the house. Even a static discharge can ruin your life. There's also the danger of passing out from the fumes. Find a better way.

[Gem Singer]

Using Ether in a closed environment without adequate ventilation is asking for trouble.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I suspect that, as others have said, the greater annoyance will be inhaling the fumes. I doubt it will be enough to pass out (unless you spill a whole quart of the ether), or likely to burst into flame, but you will probably end up with a splitting headache. Put in some ventilation.

[Joe Smigiel]

Mavidon sells an air purifier that removes VOCs including ether, and converts them to carbon dioxide and water, IIRC. I believe these to be re-branded Biozone air purifiers. I have a Biozone 3000 and it really does seem to get rid of the ether fumes. I'd turn it on several minutes before the session to flood the room with ozone and also start the exhaust fan in the other room. You don't want the ether fumes to accumulate to dangerous levels.

After consulting with a chemist I was told that even an open-flame furnace could be running as long as fumes were minimal...that the furnace would actually burn off minor quantities of ether in the air as fuel. It's when you allow it to accumulate that greatly increases the explosion hazard. Then, open flame, sparks, or even hot surfaces can set off an explosion. Check back with your chemist friend to verify that.

You have a window in there and some sort of ventilating exhaust could direct fumes outside. The best type of fan has non-ferrous blades to prevent sparks and is belt-driven having any motor out of the exhaust path. Fans made for paint spray booths are probably what you want to investigate.

As a disclaimer, I'm neither a chemist or engineer and not suggesting any of this could totally eliminate the hazard, but you could & should check with a ventilation expert and a chemist for their advice on the aspects I've mentioned.

The better alternative is probably to invest in or build a darkbox or acquire a hydroponic "grow tent" and use it outdoors where the fumes will be highly diluted. Process the plates in the tent or darkbox outside, and wash them inside.

[Struan Gray]

With ether you need to think carefully about storage too. For most homes that'll mean outdoors.

The three main dangers with ether are:

1) fumes can make you dizzy and/or unconscious
2) it is highly flammable, and forms an explosive mixture with
air at many concentrations.
3) an opened bottle can build peroxides, which detonate on light heating

There's a more technical summary here.
http://cartwright.chem.ox.ac.uk/hsci...hyl_ether.html

So you need a well-ventilated, cool, dark storage space. You need to use the ether quickly once opened (and/or have the kit and skills to test for peroxides). You need to work in a ventilated space with no spark or ignition sources (motors and light switches are classics).

That said, it's not a *nasty* chemical like dichromates or mercury compounds, but the risks are real. The annual safety lecture at the lab where I trained used to start with a flask of ether being put into a fridge. It ended, a couple of hours later with the door being opened with a long piece of string, and the whole thing exploding as the switch for the door light set off the ether-air mixture, which builds up even at low temps.

[SteveKarr]

I have to wonder if the ether in mixture with Collodion, EverClear & salts has the same potential as elemental ether.

I am very grateful for all the input so far, seems like a lot of lab experience talking, but am I the first guy to want to pour plates in his home darkroom and not an OSHA approved lab?

Hmmm ...

Steve

[Struan Gray]

The trick is to know the risks and make an informed choice, rather than getting by on beginner's luck. Some of the safety info is more appropriate to industrial or lab use, where the amounts are larger and there is a greater number of uninformed people nearby who can be injured by a mistake. That said, safety in craft-based use of chemicals often lags industrial use because the anecdotes don't pile up so rapidly.

The risk of accidental ignition is very real. Of all the safety lore and old-buffer's yarns I have heard over the years, ether figures highly, partly because it has its dangers, partly because it is (was) used so widely. I personally know and have met people who have had serious accidents with it, which is not true of many quick-acting poisons and other reagents with more alarming MSDSs that I have to deal with.

I wouldn't want to put anyone off trying wetplate, and I personally am the sort who loves to have a go. Just be aware that ether can cause an explosion if someone is smoking in the next room; or if you have in a nearby storage area a bottle of hydrogen peroxide with the top loosened as *it's* safe handling recommends; or if you've been doing alt printing and have a permanganate crystal wedged between the floorboards. Basically, think of ether as the highly destructive dog that cannot be trusted, has to be watched, and does not mix well.

[Nathan Potter]

I think that is a rug on the floor and you live in Phoenix AZ, a very dry climate. So static discharges are likely. Plus there is a good possibility of sparking contacts within the air conditioner. But you also need a reasonable concentration of ether fumes for ignition. Hard to assess the risk with your setup but I would rig an exhaust locally where you use the ether - perhaps a flexible tube that exits through an aperture in the blocked window.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[GSX4]

I use ether in all the salted collodion I make. I would advise buying just the bare minimum you need to mix your collodion and make an iodizer mix. Basically, Ether mixed with the appropiate amount of grain alcohol, cadmium and ammonium salts. This way, the ether is diluted and more importantly, stabilized by the alcohol. When you need to mix up a batch of collodion, you pour your iodizer mix into the collodion and you can start pouring images right away.

I keep my raw ether in the metal containers it shipped in, lid tightly on and then into two ziploc bags, and kept in a rubbermaid container in my basement. I make sure to only pour it in my garage or outside if the temperature is not too hot (avoiding a flash over). All light switches, electric motors, fridges, AC units, furnaces, static, old telephones, Even cell phones (static), and heat sources can induce a flashpoint, just be mindful of your surroudnings, you can never be too careful! Once poured, get the alcohol into it ASAP, plus any iodides. Then it will be relatively stable and not built up peroxides. Even then, modern ether has additives that prevent, or slow down peroxide build up.

Then batten down the hatches again and store iodizer and any left over ether in a metal container, ziploc bags, and rubbermaid container and get it back in the basement or cool ignition free area ASAP. By storing it this way, I have found that the fumes are really well controlled. Remember that ether fumes are heavier than air and will fill a room from floor to ceiling. Once that has happened, and mixed with air, you have a bomb!! I always try to mix my collodion outside, or in the garage with no distractions. Wear gloves, goggles and paint mask if you need to... Especially when mixing cadmium salts into solution!!!!