11x14 questions

[olwick]

Thanks Vaughan.

Question then: Is there a way to end up with an 11x14 neg for a contact print from a 5x7 cam without doing digital at all? An interneg or something?

(as you can see, I have this thing about trying to keep this completely organic and not digital).

Thanks,

mark

[Vaughn]

Yes, but you'll need a 5x7 enlarger and some litho film. You might go 4x5 enlarged to 11x14 if a 5x7 enlarger is out of reach (not too many out there). But I found little difference between handling a 4x5 and a 5x7. And depending on the alt process, you may not see any, or little image degrading from either format enlarged to 11x14.

The sharpness of many alt processes depends on the type of paper used and how the light-sensitive solution is applied to the paper. Alt processes that are made by a solution soaking into the paper surface (such at platinum) tend to be less sharp than processes using an emulsion sitting on top of the paper (such as carbon printing).

The advantage of the 4x5 or 5x7 to 11x14 path is that one can burn/dodge when making the interneg, thus contacting the 11x14 copy neg is just a straight printing job.

If one did not want to use litho film, and copy film can not be found, I suppose one could contact print the 4x5 or 5x7 directly onto another piece of film, then enlarge that onto a 11x14 piece of film (one of the Eastern European slow emulsion films perhaps? or even x-ray film)

Vaughn

[Curt]

One of my instructors talked with ol' AA about if he should stick with enlarging 5x7 or get an 11x14 and contact print. AA suggested sticking with the 5x7. Primarily due to the longer lenses required for 11x14 and the resulting reduction in the depth of field. (the instructor often worked close to his subject, tucking into relatively tight places in the landscape).

It turned out to be good advice as he is considered one of the top living fine art photographers in the world.

But it is a big jump from 5x7 to 11x14. Many focal length lenses used with 8x10 are used with 11x14. It will depend on how you see and photograph -- if you want a "normal" or longer lenses, then depth of field might be a factor that makes 11x14 a little more difficult to use for you. Not a decided factor against 11x14, just something to keep in mind.

Vaughn

PS -- Jim, I am printing some carbons tonight, including (shudder) testing a digital negative.

OMG Vaughn, you haven't, have you, ugh gone d******? Scanning those 5X7's maybe? I won't sleep tonight, that's for sure.

I just finished CAD drawings for 11X14 film holders, there it's out Jim, I made a profile and partial prototype and the film slides in smooth and stays flat, very small tolerances, I also found an old fine woodworking tip that turns out to be the answer to my most nagging problem.

The process of seeing it in CAD and doing it in the shop is quite enlightening. Hey Vaughn when I make my camera and holders I won't have spent the bank on the lot and will still be able to go digital if I deem it necessary. It would be nice to shoot small, scan and print Carbon. Traveling by air with an ULF isn't going to work for me, nor is old age. Just some thoughts in the late evening.

Curt

[Vaughn]

Just testing a negative we printed out on an inkjet printer -- trying to create a template for carbon printing via Dan Burkholder's method. Seems like a hybrid method is what my people are doing these days, so if I am going to teach carbon printing, I had better be able to help folks out with getting a good digital negs. (and yes, it was a 5x7 negative that was scanned and printed out with a step wedge to approx 8x10.)

I am also printing a couple 4x10 camera negs and an 8x10 camera negjust to keep myself centered...

Not really interested in doing it for my own personal work.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

One of my instructors talked with ol' AA about if he should stick with enlarging 5x7 or get an 11x14 and contact print. AA suggested sticking with the 5x7. Primarily due to the longer lenses required for 11x14 and the resulting reduction in the depth of field. (the instructor often worked close to his subject, tucking into relatively tight places in the landscape).

It turned out to be good advice as he is considered one of the top living fine art photographers in the world.

But it is a big jump from 5x7 to 11x14. Many focal length lenses used with 8x10 are used with 11x14. It will depend on how you see and photograph -- if you want a "normal" or longer lenses, then depth of field might be a factor that makes 11x14 a little more difficult to use for you. Not a decided factor against 11x14, just something to keep in mind.

Vaughn

PS -- Jim, I am printing some carbons tonight, including (shudder) testing a digital negative.

Vaughn, let me know how the digital stuff comes out. Something I'm going to have to get up to speed on if I'm going to be teaching carbon printing also. Just not in my work flow but it will be in others so it would be nice to know.

Jim

[Vaughn]

Jim, the carbon I just printed using the one dig neg I made came out very flat -- both in contrast and relief. It was made using Dan Burkholder's template for platinum printing. The neg looked flat so I was not surprised.

Basically one gets the image looking like one wants it to look on the computer screen, then one applies a template that changes the curves to print in what ever process one is using so that it will print like it looks on the screen. This assumes that one has good control/consistancy on one's printing process (including the same light source). So obviously we'll need to crank up the contrast quite a bit relative to the platinum template.

Once one has the template fine-tuned, then it can be applied to all one's images to get (in theory) the same result. Of course, one can still vary the controls in the alt process to best fit the image.

There, I just taught you just about all I know about digital negatives!

I'll be working with Kate Jordahl next week in Hayward to fine-tune the templates to match my tissue and PhotoCentral's NuArc for the workshop. I'll ask about how they feel about having you come up to assist, if you are still interested.

Vaughn

PS...time to develop the last carbon print of this printing session!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Vaughn, thanks for the digital training on negatives.That is about all my small brain can handle. Let me know about assisting with the workshop. I may have one at Translight Photography center in Los Angeles on the same day. I'm waiting for confirmation.

Jim

[Brian C. Miller]

Question then: Is there a way to end up with an 11x14 neg for a contact print from a 5x7 cam without doing digital at all? An interneg or something?

Ilford FP4+ reversal instructions

I haven't done it myself yet, but it's on my to-do mad scientist list. Yes, I want to play with concentrated sulpheric acid!

[Vaughn]

Ilford FP4+ reversal instructions

I haven't done it myself yet, but it's on my to-do mad scientist list. Yes, I want to play with concentrated sulpheric acid!

And there is the fellow (Dr5) who will develop/reverse your B&W sheet film for you.

http://www.dr5.com/

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Ilford FP4+ reversal instructions

Thank you! I haven't seen this before.