SENATE DEFEATS EFFORT TO OPEN THE ARCTIC REFUGE TO OIL DRILLING

[Jonathan Brewer]

If you're a country boy then maybe you can answer a question I've always been meaning to ask somebody. If someone finally decides to leave the big city, where do you go?

I've been to a few place out of the country, but I mean here in the states, is there a place to go to where they're not doing the things they do in the big city? Do those kinds of places really/still exist?

I'm a city boy so I'd like to know, if one ever decides to leave the big city, where do you go where they don't have some degree of the problems you've mentioned? I don't mean living like a 'mountain man', I mean a community, where you can raise your kids, and give them an education.

[Alec Jones]

Sal said: "I believe that we'd all be better off were unleaded regular priced nearer $5.00/gal"

Hey Sal. You've got to be the posterboy for "Driving a Yugo"!!!!!

Why, I bet you even wish your TAXES were higher too, right?

[Matt_1193]

Johnathan, Check yer email.

[Chad Jarvis]

I don't know if this is really the right forum for this discussion, but I'm going to chime in anyway. I live in Maryland and work in DC. Gasoline here ranges from around $1.60 to just under $2.00 per gallon. I usally buy in Maryland, where the tax on gasoline is one of the highest in the nation. Unfortunately I drive 65 miles one-way to my job, so I shell out around $50/week to keep gas in my Honda. I'm not complaining; just telling you where I'm coming from. Oh, and I'm a moderate, so... First to all you unltra-right-wing types, get off it. You are being manipulated by the oil companies, who are trying to convince you that we NEED to drill. Have you ever asked yourself why they feel we NEED to drill? Do you really believe that they have the country's best interest in mind? Has it ever occurred to any of you that the name of the game is PROFIT? Now, I'm not some anti-capitalist, but I do recognize that oil companies have NEVER had my best interest in mind when striking out on a new venture. I would also say to those of you who are only regurgitating what you've read/seen/heard in the press to gather more information about the subject. Yes, it's ONLY 2000 out of millions of acres, but the significance of those 2000 acres is much greater than the Limbaugh's and Liddy's of the world would have you believe. First, those 2000 acres need not be contiguous. In fact, when totaling the area taken by a pipeline, only the ACTUAL FOOTPRINT of the pipeline need be considered, so if it is perched upon "legs" with "feet" of only a square foot or two, one could have miles and miles of pipeline and still could count it as only an acre of land. Obviously the impact would be much greater than that acre. Second, the 2000 acres referenced make up the entire western shoreline of the reserve, approximately 25 miles in length. Now for all the left-wing, bleeding hearts out there: Didn't we hear this same argument vis a vis drilling for oil and natural gas in the Gulf of Mexico? And has anyone given any thought to what the alternative to drilling in ANWAR would/will be? Will there now be more wells in the Southwest? Or in the gulf? Did you know that the BLM has already allowed exploration to begin right outside Arches National Park? I know, I know, that's a lot of questions, but one has to ask whether it's smarter to move drilling to areas in the lower 48 that are MUCH MORE HIGHLY utilized in favor of "saving" an area that's rarely even seen by human eyes. I would also advise you to gather more information than just what's provided by Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and the Nature Conservancy. While I agree that these organizations have a purpose, I would also say that if we had listened to them in the mid-50s, much of the southwestern US would not have water right now. Sometimes sacrifice is required in the name of progress. The success of the Senate is not and should not be measured by whether or not a proposal is passed or defeated; its success is measured by the fact that there is debate at all.

[Pete Andrews]

"Sometimes sacrifice is required in the name of progress." - Please define 'progress'.Is having more consumer goods than you have time to use progress?Is being able to get clinically obese on cheap junk food progress?Is driving everywhere and then having to use your free time and pay to use a gym in order to keep fit progress?Is having leisure time, but nowhere pleasant to spend it progress?Is having cheap 'gas', but having to commute 50 miles to work progress?Is having a world economy that relies on an ever-increasing human population progressIs the exploitation of 80% of the world's inhabitants by the other 20%, progress?Is the destruction of the diversity of human culture progress?

And before you accuse me of being an unrealistic left-wing do-gooder: I want to see a more responsible attitude to the environment for purely selfish reasons. I don't want to spend the rest of my life looking at a cheaply built brick and concrete jungle, listening to the roar of traffic, breathing polluted air and eating tasteless food, thanks very much.Besides, that constant haze of pollution really fucks up the quality of light in my photographs.

[Alec Jones]

Pete, I'd answer Yes to all those questions, enthusiastically! It's called Personal Freedom. Its the reason we kicked your butts out over 200 years ago. Now, look at us, versus you. We're still advancing, while you're wearing out your fingernails trying to hold onto what you've got left, which isn't much. I'd say we made the right decision.

[Wim van Velzen]

Peter, thank you for putting far more eloquently what I'd like to say.

If realistic means: 'well we want to have more so we use the earth till all is gone', than I don't want to be realistic!

Please: is all our wealth (or what ever we like to call it) enough reason to leave a mess to our children?

I always thought that we photographers knew a bit about beauty...

[Pete Andrews]

NO. It's called being a corporately owned sheep. You have the 'personal freedom' to do exactly what politicians and international companies want you to do.I'm glad we no longer have the responsibility for looking after you lot.

[Pete Andrews]

Sorry Wim. That wasn't aimed at you, but at smart Alec.

[Wim van Velzen]

Wrong email address in my last posting.

Alec: what if your neighbor's personal freedom means that he makes a hell of a noise in the middle of the night, burns awfully smelling stuff in his backgarden and has the singing birds for breakfast.

Is 'the pursuit of happiness' just the 'pursuit of consumer goods'?