Talk me off the incident metering cliff

[D. Bryant]

Yes there is, for the 40D see page 63 in the owners manual (at least it's page 63 in the PDF I found online). Right there with the saturation and sharpness and tone adjustments.

Nikons can do the same thing. My daughters little Olympus P&S does the same too.

The contrast setting can even be automatic by choosing a certain camera "modes". This auto mode may even be the default as delivered on many cameras.

Those are Picture Style modes which affect JPG only. Additionally Picture Styles can be applied to the RAW with Canon's DPP software during post if one wishes.

So for RAW capture there are no contrast settings.

[Mark Barendt]

So for RAW capture there are no contrast settings.

If you get a utility that can read what's in the Raw file you will find all the information is there.

Even if it were not, the software on your computer would have to fill in the blanks.

A user defined or default contrast setting has to be applied and rendered in before a Raw image can be viewed as more than 1's and 0's.

Just because we can change the settings in the computer and the file gets re-rendered to show the changes does not mean that there are no settings, it simply means that we can ignore the original settings.

My point with regard to the OP is simply that negatives and scans of negatives are low in contrast and require adjustment (we have to apply a set of settings).

Digital pictures are always viewed after a certain set of settings, including a contrast setting, have been applied.

[Jay DeFehr]

I think the simple answer is that your first example photo is not under exposed. There's plenty of shadow detail, and that's the only thing you should be looking at if you're trying to judge exposure. Brightness and contrast issues only confuse matters. Until you expose some film based on the exposures indicated by your metering, you won't be certain.

I finally sold my spot meter when I accepted that for me, incident metering is more accurate and consistent. I think your meter is working just fine. Walter's sunny 16 rule check is a good one, so long as you understand it's not precise to 1/3 stop accuracy, and requires some adjustment for latitude (geographic).

Good luck, and have fun!

[Robert Hughes]

Just a note about the L-398. I own one that over time has changed sensitivity. It now reads a full stop brighter than a known-good meter of more recent vintage. You may want to check your meter for proper calibration, although the f/16 @1/125 doesn't sound far off for a mid day shot.

[Donald Miller]

I use incident exclusively with LF BW and a single incident reading is actually not going to do more than get one into the ball park as far as exposure is concerned. I can see where the same would hold true for color.

In order to arrive at a more accurate exposure one must meter both from a shadow position and a highlight position. From that one can determine the contrast range of the scene and make an informed decision of how they want to expose to arrive at the result that they want.

[D. Bryant]

If you get a utility that can read what's in the Raw file you will find all the information is there.

Even if it were not, the software on your computer would have to fill in the blanks.

A user defined or default contrast setting has to be applied and rendered in before a Raw image can be viewed as more than 1's and 0's.

Just because we can change the settings in the computer and the file gets re-rendered to show the changes does not mean that there are no settings, it simply means that we can ignore the original settings.

My point with regard to the OP is simply that negatives and scans of negatives are low in contrast and require adjustment (we have to apply a set of settings).

Digital pictures are always viewed after a certain set of settings, including a contrast setting, have been applied.

Thanks for clariying that for us.

Don

[Frank_E]

not to hijack the thread but the topic interests me because I have been having metering problems also

to make sure I am doing it right I finally did buy a spot meter but haven't been out with it yet

my question relates to the use of an incident/reflectance meter (I have both a Luna Pro and a Digi Six). I can understand how you can get an incident reading if your subject is close (ie you walk right up to it and take your reading....) however if your main subject is some distance away, or there is an obstacle between you and your subject, aren't you limited to taking a reflectance reading and then the trick becomes one of trying to target your meter at some object which approximates 18% grey. How do you guys take incidence readings in those situations?

thanks

[Mark Barendt]

I can understand how you can get an incident reading if your subject is close (ie you walk right up to it and take your reading....) however if your main subject is some distance away, or there is an obstacle between you and your subject, aren't you limited to taking a reflectance reading and then the trick becomes one of trying to target your meter at some object which approximates 18% grey. How do you guys take incidence readings in those situations?

thanks

All that is required for an incident meter reading is to be in the same light, not that you are at the subject.

As to taking a reflected reading off an 18% subject, that's an easy way to get the camera setting, but it's not required. You can spot meter off most any subject in your scene.

You just need to offset the reading the right number of zones.

[Mark Barendt]

Thanks for clariying that for us.

Don

You are quite welcome.

[Chris CS]

Thanks for the replies. I'll keep experimenting.

All the images are RAW files from the canon, not scans.

I use Canon's DDP software with the 'Faithful' profile which has the best colour accuracy and least contrast. It's somewhere between Portra NC and Provia as a starting point.

The picture looks contrasty simply because it's extremely clear/hard light. All I did in photoshop was add a tiny bit of unsharp-mask, resize and take screen grabs of the histograms in the levels tool.

I have a 4x5 Fuji instant film back coming in the next few days. When it arrives I'll post some examples of how that film compares.