Kevin: Supporting the tactics of greedy firms that use the subterfuge of trademarks and exclusive distributorships to gouge the citizenry is unpatriotic because it undermines the country's productivity. Such firms may pay taxes but otherwise their contribution to the economy is sub-optimal in as much as in their hands your money is worth less. In a free society citizens can drive the gougers out business by not to giving them their money. It is the citizens patriotic duty to do so.
Kevin.....The dealers themselves dump their stock on e-bay when it's to their advantage, undercutting other dealers in effect, but does the thought of this being maybe unpatriotic stop them, NO. Have you ever checked out e-bay, they're 'guys' with 6000 feedbacks, who would have time to shoot with 6000 feedbacks?
I have communicated with some of these folks and they are the dealers or are affiliated with the dealers. They'll cut each others throat when it suits them, which is why I can understand why you're so riled up? I only bought American for years, and most of the time they didn't even think they had to be polite while I was doing it.
I bought a lens from RW that is an additional $1000 here, that savings goes to my family, and I feel no pain, because this a world community.
Erik....RW is first and foremost a Businessman but consider this; I've sunk plenty into the pockets of B&H which I consider a good and honest outfit, truly, but RW did me several favors just based on the fact that I was a valued customer, he contacts you the next day no ifs , ands, or buts. He's no saint(who is?), but he's got CLASS.
Once he knows you, your word is as good as a check. He is no saint, but he's is a businessman I perceive to be honest, how many of those are there?
Kevin, If all of the photographic equipment we are talking about is NOT manufactured in this country do not those workers pay taxes in their country. How then does paying for middleman markups help employ workers in this country so that they can pay taxes. I imagine that the staff of the middlemen sellers to retailers is not terribly large nation wide. Frankly , it would seem to me that since we are supporting the tax base of other countries by purchasing their manufactured goods it behooves us as good citizens to save as much as we can so that we can pay taxes here. Seriously, every one is obligated to pay a FAIR share of the cost of government, but not more than a fair share. I see no problem in paying a FAIR price for an item but I would be a fool to pay more than that just to support the greed of a seller.
Barry
Please tell me who you work for and what you make so that I can decide if you make too much so that I can boycott your company's product. Come on. Hasselblad USA is not just one guy sitting behind a desk. Nor is Mamiya. They employ technicians, secretaries, drivers, accountants, and so on and so forth just as your company employs you, or you employ yourself. AND as I mentioned, the most important thing these importers do is to maintain the warranty department and parts department as well as to let everyone know whats new and old and all of that good stuff. I don't say you should not buy from overseas if you want to. What I say is, if we all buy overseas, then we don't have those importers here, and we don't have the services they provide either. That is why I buy my film locally even though I can order it for 50 cents a roll from someplace else. I like it that there is a photography store close to me that I can go and browse around in, and have avalailable to ask questions of, and get things for me in a hurry when I need them. And that is why I want importers. And why I am willing to pay a little bit more for them. If you don't want them fine. But then don't come back here and complain that you can't get warranty service or that some company is downsizing in its product line or some other stupid complaint. And don't complain if you happen to lose your job because it was outsourced to Japan or China or Korea or where ever. Kevin
Kevin, For what it is worth I am a retired Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon. I don't really see this as germaine to this discussion. What I do believe is germaine is the fact that the warranties you seem to feel are so valuable become terribly overpriced insurance policies(often with a lot of fine print). Doesn't it make more sense to pay half the amount that "official' importers are asking and send defective or broken equipment back to the factory or to a qualified repair shop here. Postage or Fed ex or UPS rates are not that expensive. Who repairs equipment after the warrantee expires? As for dealing with a local shop I too would rather, but problems do arise. I am still waiting for my local shop to notify me that the Schneider lens that I ordered two years ago has come in. I now get the feeling that the salesperson really didn't understand that this lens was for a 4x5 view camera and not a 35mm slr. We are not talking about fifty cents more for a roll of film but a thousand dollars for a lens or a body.My insurance company charges $1.12/$100 for full coverage insurance. If the impact of not buying stuff locally and by paying more for film locally why is Kodak cutting more and more of its production? Please lets get back to the issue of where these bodies and lenses are made and where the employees of these manufacturers pay taxes. Respectfully Barry Trabitz
Dr. Trabitz
For what its worth, I am a practicing attorney and a practicing photographer. I spend 75 percent of my time doing pro-bono work for poor and disadvantaged people and I work full time. The rest of my time is spent doing enough work so that I can get by. I earn less in one year than you probably earned in 2 months. But I still buy my photography equipment here becasue I believe that buying here creates jobs here, regardless of whether the jobis working for an importer or working for a manufacturer. The importance of warranties is secondary to the importance of supporting our own country. Sadly, much of what we like to own in this country isn't made in this country becasue of the very reason I feel strongly about this issue. Once again, I do not mind if people want to save money by buying someplace else. That is capitalism and I believe in it. What I do mind is those who are hypocrits. By that I mean those would would complain they are not being paid enough and whose every belonging is worth a fortune, but when it comes time for them to buy it seems everyone elses stuff is worth nothing. I don't specifically say you are that way becasue I have no evidence that you are. But I stand by my arguments. Respectfully, Kevin
What I say is, if we all buy overseas, then we don't have those importers here, and we don't have the services they provide either.
Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who earns a buck but unless those importers that're trying to maintain unrealistically high margins on their products start to lose sales to those elsewhere in the world that don't, they have no incentive to lower their prices or improve their customer service or whatever else might be necessary to preserve their share of the market they helped to develop. If you know of a better way to drive this point home to them -- write them a letter, perhaps? -- then I'm all ears but historically, spending your money where you get the most perceived value (be it the lowest prices or the best service) has proven to be the most effective approach.
Kevin, by locally you mean domestic retailers, not local (as in Minneapolis), right? I only ask because when I saw some of your posts in this thread I went back and found an old email from you that states you buy your film from B&H in bulk and either process locally or ship it off to Kansas City and you buy most of your equipment off of eBay. I'm not attempting to take a cheap shot at you, simply trying to clarify your stance since your posts have read to me as your support of truly local, not domestic, retailers -- yet in the past you have failed to practice what you preach. And, if you do mean domestic and not local, some of your theories about taxes, roads, etc. are negated.
While I wholeheartedly support the concept of purchasing locally and attempt to do so when reasonable, the local stores charge 2-4 times what I can buy film for at B&H, there is no LF equipment to be found for the most part, and last time I checked out the darkroom section of the local "pro" shop I heard the woman working there explaining to someone that there was no difference between RC and Fiber except that RC dries faster. My personal stance is that I while I try to support local retailers, the price discrepancy becomes an issue. I will pay a slight premium to support the local shops (because when I need a roll of film TODAY B&H cannot help me out). However, my overwhelming preference is to buy from someone who actually understands the equipment and needs of the LF community. These are the people that are going to continue to stock the items we want and need and have the best connection to the manufacturers. I also have an advantage that I only live a few hours from Badger and my family is from near there so I can somewhat justify supporting a "local" retailer.
Off my soapbox now. My apologies but I feel much better.
Jennifer Yes, I have in the past bought bulk film from B and H but I no longer do as I try and support the local retailers now even though their prices are quite high. And if I cannot get it locally I try to buy it here in the United States. So yes, I mean domestically.
Once again, I don't say you shouldn't buy where you want to. All I say is don't complain when the distributor isn't there, or kodak isn't there, or something is wrong, when you didn't support them in the first place.
And I am also saying that it is funny to me that people are so hypocritical. Thinking that their value is so very high, but when you have to make a deal with someone their value is low. How would you like it if on your next job you finished and the buyer said well, I know you asked for $100.00 but I don't think you are worth that so I will give you $50.00. Or, if you went in for your paycheck and the boss said well, I know we pay you 25 per hour but this week I am only going to give you 10 per hour. You would howl bloody murder. But its okay to tell the guy down the street trying to make a living by keeping some stuff in stock that you might want or need that he is charging too much. Bullshit.
Kevin
Kevin, aside from the hypocrisy about your own past purchases revealed by Jennifer above, it is interesting to note (www.kjkolosky.com) that about 7 years ago you started a new career as an attorney in private practice at about 40 years of age. In my experience with such endeavors, attorneys in individual practice are constantly scrounging for new business among the local citizenry and the small business community. In addition, I notice that you are currently seeking election to a judgeship in your community, which further necessitates the need to suck up to the locals and buy votes with your purchases.
So in fact, your recent conversion to purchasing local (rather than from B&H Photo) is a crude sort of barter that is part and parcel of your struggles as an individual attorney in private practice and your future political aspirations. In your pursuit of personal financial rewards, for you to pontificate as some sort of morally superior person and accuse others of not supporting their country, makes my stomach turn.
I suspect that the example you gave of someone being told they are only worth $10 per hour comes from a real experience you have had as an attorney. That could be the result of several factors. First, it could be the result of an oversupply of attorneys in your area, and the ?market? is telling you that (although you work very hard and very much enjoy your job) you need to look elsewhere for a career if you want more money. Better that the ?market? tell you what profession to pursue, rather than like it was in the Soviet Union when the government assigned people professions based on the ?needs? of the state. Alternatively, it could a reflection of the quality of service you have provided your clients. Based on the ridiculous arguments that you put forward in this forum, I would not rule out the later.
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