Disappointed

[Wil_Bloodworth]

As you can tell from my post count, I'm new to the LF forum. I've been going out with the Dallas LF guys for several weeks now and I bought an Omegaview 45E 4x5" and a Fuji 135mm lens from my buddy Eugene who lives down the street. I've had a really great time learning about view cameras, LF film, development, etc. from Bob, Glenn, Michael, and Eugene... thank you very much!

Here's the first image I took with this camera. It was taken Saturday morning at SMU. Eugene developed the 4x5" film and gave me the negatives. I then scanned the negatives on an Epson V700 at 2400 DPI. That produced a "freakishly huge" file that was pretty difficult to work with. Here is the result... obviously reduced in size:



A 100% crop of the top of the dome... from the original scanned TIFF:
You can see my fast-and-dirty noise/grain removal from the sky around the iron work.


Honestly, at this point, I'm am hugely disappointed with the results. Why?

1: The negative holders are a PITA to load (which you have to do in total darkness just by touch)
2: The film is somewhat expensive ($1.25 a sheet)
3: You can only take a few (8 for me) images in a day
4: The camera is huge and very difficult to work with
5: It's difficult (for me) to get the composition I want because everything is upside down
6: Development of the film is expensive if you get it done at a lab
7: If you develop the film yourself:
a) it has to be done in the dark (duh)
b) is messy
c) takes forever
d) is easy to screw up
e) you have to wait 24 hours for the negatives to dry
8: Takes forever to get a decent scanned image
9: No EXIF data
10: Dust and scratches EVERYWHERE! The images look like dirt was just thrown on them. You have to spend forever and a day inside Photoshop removing spots, hairs, scratches, etc. This was the worst part for me. IQ just didn't cut it but it could be my fault.

I thought seeing the resulting images would be a great reward for such effort expended. However, I have not seen anything rewarding about the output.

My development materials will be in this week and I'll give it another shot and see if I can make a difference in eliminating dust and just doing it all myself from end to end. Disappointed is about all I can say at this point.

- Wil

[Jim collum]

Sorry it wasn't a pleasant experience. Film workflow isn't for everyone (most of the negatives you state are positives for others). I'm not sure why you'd be removing the grain.. it's part of the structure of a film image. You can lessen it by different film/developer choices.. but the removal makes the image look.. plastic. Dust control has been with film from the beginning... if you continue with it, you'll need to come up with one that works for you (there's plenty of info out there on how to minimize dust while loading holders, developing/drying film and scanning). The worst dust problems i've found is when labs do the processing.

jim

[Denis Pleic]

As the Python crew would say - "look on the bright side of life":
if you decide it's not for you and decide to sell the equipment you purchased, at least you know where to sell it
And, you probably won't suffer a big loss (20-30 percent at most)... LF equipment holds resale value much better than the latest digigizmos...
And, at least you can say you tried and decided it's not for you

[catshaver]

Sounds like the beginning of a meaningful long term relationship. Everyone in this forum knows that the learning curve is immense. But we celebrate every small victory that comes along. It is a skill that is honed over time. Loading film will become second nature to you, and you'll learn to wipe out your changing bag/tent with a damp cloth immediately before loading film to keep the dust down, and you'll learn to give the film holder a downward rap in your hand before loading, to shake loose any dust on the neg, and you'll also learn to see upside down and backwards as being an advantage in organizing shapes and composition. Getting to know the movements on your monorail camera takes practice practice practice. You'll also learn to use hyperfocal distance to your advantage as well. Do these skills come all at once? Hell no! It takes patience and a love for doing things with your hands.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Sorry it wasn't a pleasant experience. Film workflow isn't for everyone (most of the negatives you state are positives for others). I'm not sure why you'd be removing the grain.. it's part of the structure of a film image. You can lessen it by different film/developer choices.. but the removal makes the image look.. plastic. Dust control has been with film from the beginning... if you continue with it, you'll need to come up with one that works for you (there's plenty of info out there on how to minimize dust while loading holders, developing/drying film and scanning). The worst dust problems i've found is when labs do the processing.

jim

Jim,

Let me correct what I said before. The experience was definitely a pleasure. It is a lot of fun. It was the resultant images that I was disappointed with.

And when I said, "remove grain" I misspoke. I was really trying to remove a bunch of dust and scratches and the grain ended up going with it. I like the grain but I'm not sure where all of the other stuff is coming from. It's probably all my fault.

Thanks for the heads up on the labs. I was considering using a lab to see if they processed a negative decently. Logic dictates that they would since they do it so often and people pay them to do it. However, I guess there is more to it than that.

- Wil

[Jim collum]

a few vital tools for dust control while scanning

http://kinetronics.com/store/cleanscan.html

http://www.google.com/products?clien...06&lnk=catsugg

http://www.adorama.com/CHEAS4.html

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Sound like the beginning of a meaningful long term relationship.

THAT is funny!

Everyone in this forum knows that the learning curve is immense. But we celebrate every small victory that comes along. It is a skill that is honed over time. Loading film will become second nature to you, and you'll learn to wipe out your changing bag/tent with a damp cloth immediately before loading film to keep the dust down, and you'll learn to give the film holder a downward rap in your hand before loading, to shake loose any dust on the neg, and you'll also learn to see upside down and backwards as being an advantage in organizing shapes and composition. Getting to know the movements on your monorail camera take practice practice practice. You'll also learn to use hyperfocal distance to your advantage as well. Do these skills come all at once? Hell no! It takes patience and a love for doing things with your hands.

Thanks. I'm sure all of that is 110% true... I know it is. I just need to get back on the horse and try again. There are definitely a LOT of variables between preparation and the final image... many many more than with a digital SLR.

I did learn that blowing off both side of the negatives as well as the scanner with canned air right before the scan helped quite a bit.

- Wil

[Wil_Bloodworth]

a few vital tools for dust control while scanning

http://kinetronics.com/store/cleanscan.html

http://www.google.com/products?clien...06&lnk=catsugg

http://www.adorama.com/CHEAS4.html

Awesome! Thank you Jim!

- Wil

[memorris]

Several of the points you made will change over time. After a few months I found loading the film holders to be simple.

I can make 20 or so negative in a day easily but try to keep the number down because shooting more does not mean mode good photos. LF shooting includes thinking about each shot, contemplating and pre-visualizing. This make for a much hight percentage of good photographs.

Working with the camera also get easier with use.

Developing film in a jobo drum by hand is not really a problem. I did it that way for quite a while before buying a jobo machine. Yes, as others has mentioned, darkroom workflow is not for everyone, but it may be something that you hate in the beginning and learn to love over time. Except the 24 hour drying time seems way long, my typical drying time is < 2 hours here in Phoenix.

With a drum, developing is not that easy to screw up. I make mistakes all the time and the film is forgiving.

Hang in there for a bit before giving up on lf photography. You may find it grows on you.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Question: On the Kinetronics website it shows the lab tech wearing gloves. Should I be wearing gloves when handling the negatives or was that just shown for effect?

- Wil