US carry-on luggage regulation before congress

[Dan Fromm]

Rick, further on the point of deterrence. Substance abuse is prohibited in most workplaces. In my firm the prohibition is widely known.

I mention this because one of my internal clients, a 3d level manager, and his supervisor, a 4th level manager, were fired after being caught live on videotape -- I don't know whether the walls have ears, but the ceilings have eyes -- inhaling white powder. Turns out the the 4th level was the local distributor. So much for the fear of losing one's job.

[rdenney]

Rick, y'r argument is as good as the one advanced by some economists (not this one) that concern for reputation would keep bankers and brokers honest.

That said, the question of who steals more often from checked baggage is an empirical one that can't be settled by fantasizing about which class of thief has more to lose if caught. Are you aware of any data that might settle the question? I'm not.

Concern for reputation? Not so much. Going to jail? Uh, yes. Sarbanes-Oxley sure changed the interest the CEO of my former employer had in the accounting of the company, primarily because Sox changed "mistakes" to "crimes" by requiring explicit certification by the CEO.

No, I'm not aware of any data. But the absence of data is precisely why we should not immediately and reflexively blame just the people involved in one part of the baggage handling process, particularly just because they are government employees.

Rick "for whom news reports are not data" Denney

[Bob Salomon]

There will always be examples. But the fact that you saw the report demonstrates the consequences.

I wonder if it would have been easier for a baggage handler to get away with it so that you would never have seen the report.

Rick "who doesn't check valuables" Denney

Rick,

There is closed circuit video surveillance (when it works) all over the TSA areas as well as all over the airports, including baggage handling areas.

I only am Star Alliance Gold and Marriott Lifetime Platinum so I might not travel as much as some of you but I can guarantee that I travel more then most of you.

I have not had anything taken from a case, checked or not, or a case ruined or damaged in several years. And while all of my flights originate out of EWR I have flown in and out of the following airports the last 18 months with no problems, and I fly with samples!

Charlotte, Durham, Las Vegas, Detroit, Des Moines, Moline, Minneapolis, Houston, Seattle, Toronto, Boston, Nashville, Cincinnati, Dayton, Phoenix, San Francisco, Atlanta, Chicago, Rochester, Buffalo, Los Angelas, San Diego, New Orleans, Orlando, Greensboro, Reno, Orange County, Portland, Tucson, Omaha, St Louis, Albuquerque, Copenhagen.

So I am going to have to hear some very convincing arguments as why there is a ongoing problem with checked bags (all of the above save Toronto had checked bags), missing items, etc. And by the way. The above airports were sometimes visited or flown in or out of more then once during the period!

[B.S.Kumar]

The BP disaster doesn't undermine that argument at all. It is the first such disaster in how many years? And the effect of liability on BP is going to add new zeal to the care shown by other companies in the same business.

Rick "not blaming malice for what can be explained by incompetence" Denney

Rick,

Bhopal was the first in how many years? Minamata in how many years?
And as far as liability is concerned, we're fighting this new bill in India:
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/s...n-1006004.html

Incompetence and malice ought to be different things, but when they are combined, as in the case of Bhopal and Minamata...

And to keep it on topic, I don't know if things have changed since 2006, but it took exactly 80 minutes for baggage to arrive on the carousel on a flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I asked a fellow passenger what the problem could be, and he didn't appear to be fazed. He said it was normal. (In Mumbai, New Delhi and Bangalore it usually takes 15 minutes. In Japan, by the time you reach the carousel, the baggage is usually there, with a guy ensuring that the handle faces the passenger.) The flight itself had been delayed over an hour, and we had to sit in the plane for 40 minutes while our luggage was loaded slowly, but not carefully, by two guys who brought only ten or twelve pieces each time on their huge baggage vehicle. Due to all this, I missed my flight back to Tokyo, and was placed on standby for a flight the next day. I came very early to the airport. The place was swarming with police toting machine guns. I honestly didn't know what to make of the TSA. I saw baggage being carted to the secure area, where passengers were not allowed. In all the airports I've seen, baggage is always checked in front of the passenger. Since I was on standby, I was the last to check in. My baggage wasn't even opened, just a cursory explosives swab...

Kumar "who has seen the suffering of victims in Bhopal and Minamata"

[rdenney]

And to keep it on topic, I don't know if things have changed since 2006, but it took exactly 80 minutes for baggage to arrive on the carousel on a flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I asked a fellow passenger what the problem could be, and he didn't appear to be fazed. He said it was normal. (In Mumbai, New Delhi and Bangalore it usually takes 15 minutes. In Japan, by the time you reach the carousel, the baggage is usually there, with a guy ensuring that the handle faces the passenger.) The flight itself had been delayed over an hour, and we had to sit in the plane for 40 minutes while our luggage was loaded slowly, but not carefully, by two guys who brought only ten or twelve pieces each time on their huge baggage vehicle. Due to all this, I missed my flight back to Tokyo, and was placed on standby for a flight the next day. I came very early to the airport. The place was swarming with police toting machine guns. I honestly didn't know what to make of the TSA. I saw baggage being carted to the secure area, where passengers were not allowed. In all the airports I've seen, baggage is always checked in front of the passenger. Since I was on standby, I was the last to check in. My baggage wasn't even opened, just a cursory explosives swab...

Your experience is not typical, despite what the fellow next to you said. I fly nearly every week, and have never seen what you reported. I'm sure if they had a bomb scare or some other threat, however, they would exercise such care.

As far as routine delays in delivering bags from the plane to the carousel, I feel your pain. I have endured it myself, though not in Tokyo or Dubai, may last international destinations, because I didn't check bags. The time it took us to get our bags in London on our last trip was about the same as it was at Dulles when we returned. But the delay you suffered isn't the TSA's fault--their activities occur at the departing airport, and they don't have any role in unloading the plane and delivering the bags back to the passengers.

Look, folks, ever since the Fall people have been willing to risk all for small reward, and their hubris prevents them from calculating the risk. Presenting a list of special cases where this is true does not in any undermine my argument that we should not immediately blame the TSA for stealing from bags without any actual evidence, and that we should understand that the TSA agents are subject to greater scrutiny and face more severe consequences than are others in the baggage-handling chain. Baggage thievery has always been with us, else nobody would have noticed when the TSA no longer allowed us to lock our bags.

Rick "who has heard a few stories of delays resulting from a breakdown in security or an apparent specific threat, but has never personally experienced one" Denney

[Robert Hall]

well said.

i got frisked leaving the USA on tues. and then again arriving in amsterdam on wed. never been felt up quite that way in public by a male security person.......i almost asked if i could get the woman guard.....so i would fell more comfortable....

eddie

Just cause your rep precedes you, my friend.