Compact film holders

[JRFrench]

Hello all,

I am embarking on a project to make a super-compact 4x5 folder. Ideally this camera will fit in a large pocket, and will have an outline not much bigger than a sheet of film.

I keep coming back to the problem that standard double dark slides are rather larger than they need to be with modern manufacturing techniques. If I want to carry a decent amount of film, they sort of overshadow and volume savings I make on a camera. Things like grafmatics can help a little, but they in themselves are rather heavy, and have quite a large footprint especially with the darkslide handle hanging out.

Anyhow, I am strongly considering making some very compact single dark slide holders, making use of the rather affordable profile cutting services that are available these days (laser, water cutting). Ideally they will be only slightly larger than the footprint of the film, just large enough to provide guides, and light tightness. The main thing keeping my brain busy is working out a compact way of providing access to load the film, and I havn't quite solved that yet. Anyway If I am successful a couple of them should fit comfortably in a pocket, which will make 4x5 much more accessible to me I feel. Oh yes just to add I will be making the registration distance something more like 1-2mm so without some kind of adapter they won't be compatible with standard cameras.

So to get to my question (comments are welcome too) I was wondering if anything like this has been produced for any large format cameras in history, surely someone has come across this problem before? Someone must have looked at all that wasted space in a standard holder with an engineers eye, and come up with a better way to do it...

[John Schneider]

Have you looked at the Mido holders? Thin and lightweight, but troublesome from what I've heard.

[JRFrench]

After a rather lengthy hunt I found a picture of some 4x10 ones, not a bad idea, thinning down the normal holder then using an adaptor to make them fit again.

They still have the problem of the rather large outline tho as they have to reach past that lip where the ridge locks into the back on normal cameras.

Having them flexible is an interesting approach. I hadn't considered doing that, I could use the back to hold them flat.

[Louie Powell]

Have you looked at the Mido holders? Thin and lightweight, but troublesome from what I've heard.

And not commercially successful, even though they were introduced in the 1970's when film was the only game in town.

Today, this would target an exceedingly small market niche.

[JRFrench]

Indeed the niche would be tiny, good thing Im not looking to make them commercially

[jp]

I've never bought film holders new, but I'd consider it if they were half as thick; I could carry more in less space, good for the backpack.

A spacer plate could be made that clips to it or to the camera back for cameras that don't want to work with something thinner. Such as the ones that aren't sprung for it. (the leaf spring style backs) I bet the graflex style back would hold a thinner one since it's uses a less linear wound spring.

You could create probably a filmholder 2/3 the thickness no problems.

Some space could be saved by bringing the film closer to the outside (thinner metal film retainer), maybe bringing it to half thickness. I bet the current design is because of wood strength and thickness requirements. You would need a spacer to be installed on existing cameras to make it on the same plane as the ground glass. These two spacers could be something that hinges or clamps on the thinner holder for backwards compatibility. The handle on the darkslide could be made integral one piece with the dark slide, such as notch to pull it out with. Any labeling could be stenciled on rather than having a label/handle.

An aftermarket properly spaced groundglass or a special back adaptor like instant film uses could be an easy and expensive way to get around this need for a spacing plate.

One downfall potential is if the film isn't perfectly flat, it might be difficult to insert the darkslide with no room to spare. A little beveled rocker piece going ahead of the darkslide and pushed by the darkslide to force the film against the middle of the film holder would prevent the darkslide from hitting the film on it's way back in.

Additional profit might be made selling dust/light proof containers for various quantities.

[JRFrench]

Some good points there, I hope to have a CAD model of what I propose read soon.

[Frank R]

How about a carbon fiber Grafmatic?

[salihonba]

Maybe many sleeves for negative, and one holder for sleeves insert/pull out, something like Quickload.........

[salihonba]

Maybe many sleeves for negatives, and one holder for sleeves insert/pull out, something like Quickload.........