cairns on mountain paths

[rdenney]

Squatting and deadlifting my weight, a bunch of times, makes the knees pretty bulletproof.

Or it kills them.

Beware of extrapolating your personal experience to everyone. It just doesn't work that way. I raced bikes in college (30-odd years ago) and since that time have been involved in a range of endurance sports, working my way up to an Ironman Triathlon about 10 years ago. I have performed so many squats, deadlifts, and leg-presses that I can't even count them, and even now in a relatively unfit state my legs are pretty strong. But my knees are a constant source of trouble, and doing squats now really tears them up. Squats, done right, are intense, and for many right at the limit of their strength in 10 or 12-rep sets. One works up to that. At one time I did sets every day of one-legged squats, but my knees still suffered.

I know a woman who is consistently in the top two or three in the world in her age group in triathlon, and she is now in her late 70's. She reports never being sick and a range of other physical miracles. Does the triathlon keep her that way, or does her good genetics keep her that way, and by the way also make it easy for her to be a world-class triathlete? The answer is not obvious. Your 93-year-old father is evidence of good genes running around in there somewhere, I would think. Lots of healthy and fit people die or suffer debilitating illness much younger for reasons unrelated to their diet and exercise program.

The underlying idea implicit in these stories from the most fit (or experienced) among us is that they represent the standard of fitness below which people ought not to go for a hike. When stated that way, I don't know many who will find that statement easy to defend. But it is a common attitude among those who work hard to become very fit or who have worked long years to gain that experience.

Rick "wondering how self-sufficient some of these woodcrafty types would feel in downtown Baltimore where I work" Denney

[walter23]

The underlying idea implicit in these stories from the most fit (or experienced) among us is that they represent the standard of fitness below which people ought not to go for a hike. When stated that way, I don't know many who will find that statement easy to defend. But it is a common attitude among those who work hard to become very fit or who have worked long years to gain that experience.

Yeah, this is something I'm seeing more and more of. I already mentioned the guy at my office who joined a club but didn't actually go hiking yet, just bought a ton of stuff. When I lived in Calgary, I went on a planned hike in a city park with some outdoor club (a friend was a member) and I actually met a pair of fairly fit joggers who said they were "working their way up to going on a mountain hike". Here I am a low-moderate shape guy who can't jog further than two blocks and never uses the gym and I just go out to the mountains whenever I can... yet these guys thought they had to become olympic athletes just to hit any old trail out in the parks, because they were hanging out with all these narcissistic amateur athletes. Weird trends in our culture right now.

Rick "wondering how self-sufficient some of these woodcrafty types would feel in downtown Baltimore where I work" Denney

Haha. I loved going to downtown Baltimore McDonalds for breakfast when I was there for a conference a couple of years ago. I hate McDonalds, but the atmosphere there was just way too interesting to resist.

[Drew Wiley]

I love those spring-loaded walking poles, especially on steep downhill grades with a
heavy pack. Started using them about 20yrs ago and my knees feel better now than then! At my age I try to get out on the hills with the pack and the 8x10 at least once a week to stay in shape. Can't stand the thought of a gym - reminds me of rats in
smelly cages on treadmills. Fortunately there are plenty of hills even within walking
distance of my house, though during these heavy spring rains some of them are very muddy, so I get tempted just to follow the drier ridge trails. As summer approaches I try to work outmmore and more to get ready for the high Sierra. Don't have any trouble with steep off-trail grades at all, but just can't cover the same distance in a day that I once could! Oh well, having plenty of fun anyway. Those poles are also
excellent devices for traction, and I can generally leave the ice axe behind.

[kev curry]

Same here with the spring loaded poles.
Thats encouraging that your knees have improved rather than degenerated!
Maybe I should rethink backpacking the 10x8... I've rethought... nah, no chance!

[tgtaylor]

One of the best, if not the best, exercise for the knees is cycling.

A good rule of thumb that I found to determine fitness for serious backcountry travel is whether or not you can cover 1.5 miles in 12 minutes on level terrain. That's an 8-minute mile pace for 1.5 miles.

[Drew Wiley]

Don't see what running on flat ground has to do with carrying a pack over hills. When
I was a kid I could run pretty good, at least for someone from a cow town, and would run ten miles a day cross-country during school hours - but it was after school or on the weekends that the real exercise began, typically on sixty-degree canyon walls. I sometimes got put in races against world class runners from that age group (like 4min
flat milers) and got utterly skunked, but I could skunk them in the mtns - it's a whole different thing, except maybe cardio in general. My feet are so bad I probably can't run
at all any more - was born that way and suffered horrible pain for decades, but it didn't keep me out of the hills. In fact next wk I have another pair of custom hiking
boots coming in that cost me nearly a grand, but this allows me a reasonable amount of comfort with heavy packs. Get me down to sixty pound pack and I can usually outpace most young backpackers. Not bragging; it's just a different kind of training, which gets more and more important as one gets older and less limber. Hell, just carrying an 8x10 around sure beats golf or whatever it is people my age think they're supposed to be doing! Just wish I could be like Norman Clyde, who still carried an 80+ lb packs in the Sierras when he was in his 80's, even if he didn't cover a lot of distance in a day. Maybe LF photog just makes one stubborn and ornery, which can't
be a bad thing if it makes you forget all the stereotypes about aging.

[PenGun]

Or it kills them.

Beware of extrapolating your personal experience to everyone. It just doesn't work that way. I raced bikes in college (30-odd years ago) and since that time have been involved in a range of endurance sports, working my way up to an Ironman Triathlon about 10 years ago. I have performed so many squats, deadlifts, and leg-presses that I can't even count them, and even now in a relatively unfit state my legs are pretty strong. But my knees are a constant source of trouble, and doing squats now really tears them up. Squats, done right, are intense, and for many right at the limit of their strength in 10 or 12-rep sets. One works up to that. At one time I did sets every day of one-legged squats, but my knees still suffered.

That is probably where you blew your knees up. Anyone who does not understand recovery should probably stay away from weights.

I know a woman who is consistently in the top two or three in the world in her age group in triathlon, and she is now in her late 70's. She reports never being sick and a range of other physical miracles. Does the triathlon keep her that way, or does her good genetics keep her that way, and by the way also make it easy for her to be a world-class triathlete? The answer is not obvious. Your 93-year-old father is evidence of good genes running around in there somewhere, I would think. Lots of healthy and fit people die or suffer debilitating illness much younger for reasons unrelated to their diet and exercise program.

The underlying idea implicit in these stories from the most fit (or experienced) among us is that they represent the standard of fitness below which people ought not to go for a hike. When stated that way, I don't know many who will find that statement easy to defend. But it is a common attitude among those who work hard to become very fit or who have worked long years to gain that experience.

Rick "wondering how self-sufficient some of these woodcrafty types would feel in downtown Baltimore where I work" Denney

I was at one time an officer of Satan's Choice. Downtown Baltimore I would not like but would probably survive.

It's a good idea to work your body especially as you age. I would be a weak old man without my weights.

I think you are overstating the case. Walking is essential if you want to hike. The big miles are where the hiking power comes from. I like the extra strength weights allow me to have but they do not substitute for the slow twitch endurance muscle.

My whole point was that you can strengthen your knees and indeed any part of your body with exercise. You should be aware of the possible problems, overexercising without recovery time is a big one and go for it. You only need a bench, some dumbbells and a bar for chins. I have never had a gym membership.

http://exrx.net/

An excellent place to start.

[Jack Dahlgren]

I was at one time an officer of Satan's Choice.

Satan's choice... Isn't that a kind of cat food?

[PenGun]

Satan's choice... Isn't that a kind of cat food?

It may by now. The Choice lost to the Angels and is no more. Well since the 70s really.

[PenGun]

One of the best, if not the best, exercise for the knees is cycling.

A good rule of thumb that I found to determine fitness for serious backcountry travel is whether or not you can cover 1.5 miles in 12 minutes on level terrain. That's an 8-minute mile pace for 1.5 miles.

No not really. As with all machines your stress is confined to a very small range. You do not strengthen stabilizer muscles and supportive tissue at all. It is probably dangerous to rely on biking for knee conditioning.

It is very useful for many other things though. Heavy cardio with almost no impact among others.