Flatbed scanners for MF neg scanning?

[urs0polar]

A Nikon 9000 is $1800. A 750 is $800. The difference is huge. It's not even funny. Spend the money and get what you need.

Photography is expensive.

Lenny

I agree completely with Lenny -- though my 9000 was a little over $2k (I live in NYC so had to pay the in-state tax since almost everyone selling it in the USA is down the street, and I didn't want to wait 6 months, so I bought it from grrrr J&R).

I still use my v700 for scanning 4x5 with an ANG betterscanning holder via dry mount (i.e. Scotch magic tape), but the amount of time it takes to perfectly tape on one medium format neg at a time (6x7, 6x9, etc) and focus the stupid thing (by turning ten plastic screws the exact same amount, scan a small patch, screw some more , scan, screw, etc etc) was driving me so far up the wall that it was driving my fiance up the wall too, so she was like, "Why don't you stop fighting it and just buy the autofocus one (the 9000)?". (haha I need to cultivate this type of sentiment!!!) If someone came out with an autofocus flatbed for under $1000 (or even under $2000 and you could then do all the way to 8x10!), it would sell like crazy.

So, I don't wet scan or anything (yet), but even the stock negative holder in the 9000 is much better than dry mounting with the betterscanning holder on the V700. I get rid of film curl by putting the film sleeve under a thick book on the cable box for 15 minutes -- the heat from the box coaxes it flat (and I get to watch UFC reruns!), and then it goes straight into the Nikon holder, and it stays pretty flat. Haven't needed wet scan yet, but that's a good tip to look into the scanscience.

I still do 4x5 on the V700. However: I was helping a friend recently with high-res shots of his art for prints. He wants to print 50"-60" a side (which is about 1:1 of the original work). I took two cameras: my Tech V and my Mamiya 7. The Mamiya 7 shots were scanned on the Nikon 9000, and the 4x5 shots on the V700 (Delta 100 in both cameras).

Well, the 6x7 from the Mamiya were easily sharper than the 4x5 from the V700. Of course, there are enough other variables to basically make this non-scientific*, but still, that Nikon 9000 is worth it in my opinion -- it is EASY to get GREAT results... the flatbeds are a TON of work (seems like you are almost doing a drum scan's worth of work what with fluids and turning gears and cursing, though I've never done a drum scan hehe).

Thus, in frustration, end-of-the-day results, the 9000 is kind of a better buy in a way, even though it's 2x (or slightly more) as expensive.

I'm pretty anal about it.... if the v700 is even a little out of focus, it drives me crazy and gives me that wet-bread-in-the-stomach feeling. haha the 9000 is adding years to my life!

*The other non-scientific variables are:

4x5: 1960's 240mm convertible symmar at f16/f22, looooong exposures, AND my amateur (=terrible) ground glass technique -- I'm not sure I've done enough yet to be confident that I am focusing accurately. Also, I was using fidelity filmholders, and there's no way that film was as flat as the film in the Mamiya 7. Bracketed 4 shots (+/- 1 stop, maybe refocusing). V700, betterscanning ANG scanning station, dry mounted.

Mamiya 7: brand new 80mm lens at F4.0/f5.6 (which according to the charts on that website I forget are it's sharpest apertures), rangefinder focusing (the art has a lot of small ridges and so forth, so great contrast for lining up the rangefinder). I took 2 rolls as well, bracketing all over the place, so perhaps that's also an advantage. Nikon 9000, stock film holders.

So, to sum up, an amateur with a 4x5 versus one of the sharpest camera systems made ... but I still think the 9000 had quite a bit to do with it, and once you focus with the betterscanning holder, the 4x5 results look FANTASTIC, but they still aren't up to the 6x7 in the 9000 for a ginormous enlargement IMO.

Since this is the LF forum, I have to add that the LF scans looked better to ME (smoother and kind of more 3D-ish), but that wasn't the functional requirement unfortunately.

All that said, however, and in light of your original post, I would get a 4990 cheap and use it until it drives you up the wall (or maybe not), and then you yourself know why you need to spend more (or not). God knows, I never intended to spend this much on this stuff....

On a related note, Does anyone know if there is any way to get 9000-like results on 4x5 for a 9000-like price?

Mark

[Lenny Eiger]

I still do 4x5 on the V700. However: I was helping a friend recently with high-res shots of his art for prints. He wants to print 50"-60" a side (which is about 1:1 of the original work). I took two cameras: my Tech V and my Mamiya 7. The Mamiya 7 shots were scanned on the Nikon 9000, and the 4x5 shots on the V700 (Delta 100 in both cameras).

Mark, next time you want to do a 60 inch print, drop me the neg and I'll throw it on the drum.

Well, the 6x7 from the Mamiya were easily sharper than the 4x5 from the V700.

It's clearly the scanner.

On a related note, Does anyone know if there is any way to get 9000-like results on 4x5 for a 9000-like price?
Mark

There have been plenty of Howtek 4500's selling in the $1500 range on EvilBay and the like. That's less than a new 9000. Of course, I say that with a caveat. If they break, it can be expensive, and if it doesn't come with everything, drum, mounting station, software, it can also be expensive.

Lenny

[rdenney]

I agree that a Nikon 9000 will be more than twice as good as a flatbed for only twice the money. But there is a middle ground if you search for it patiently: The Nikon 8000. The difference between it and the 9000 is tiny and the price is more like $1000-1200.

The resolution and optics are the same as with the 9000, and with Vuescan, the obsolete software isn't an issue. The 8000 takes the same carriers, too. The only sticking point is having a firewire port on the computer which is not a problem at all (at least not compared to the SCSI port required by my old Minolta Multi II scanner).

Rick "who would recommend spending the several hundred extra for a glass carrier for the Nikon" Denney

[urs0polar]

Mark, next time you want to do a 60 inch print, drop me the neg and I'll throw it on the drum.

Will do!

There have been plenty of Howtek 4500's selling in the $1500 range on EvilBay and the like. That's less than a new 9000. Of course, I say that with a caveat. If they break, it can be expensive, and if it doesn't come with everything, drum, mounting station, software, it can also be expensive.

That's interesting. Sounds like it may be a viable option.

Thanks!