Zone system and colour film or color slide

[Jacques-Mtl]

Can someone tell me how to use the Zone system with colour film and colour slide. I know that colour slide has a limited range of 5 zones and colour film has a little more range. I intend to shoot architecture and probably have the negatives scan. Which one would you recommend me? At what ISO?

Where should I place my spot meter reading? For example a yellow colour in direct light, yellow in shadow?
Thank you
Jacques

[Joanna Carter]

Actually, the range on slide film varies, from as little as 3-3.5 stops for Velvia 50 to around 6 stops for Astia 100F.

The trick is get to know what the range of your chosen film is and also how much of that range is under and over the "zone 5" exposure for a given subject.

e.g.
For Velvia 100 - 4 stops range - -2 to +2
1. Measure the reading for the darkest shadow that you want to see detail (Zone 3)
2. Reduce this exposure by 2 stops to give you a corrected "zone 5" exposure for the whole image.
3. meter around the subject to determine if any part of the image is more than 2 stops over the "zone 5" reading - if it is, then decide whether you can use a grad filter (for something like a sky), or whether you are going to have to wait for the light to change.

Of course, you can't easily over or under develop E6 film like you can B&W, so you usually end up learning how and when to shoot for the limited range of these films.

For determining the range of a film, it is cheaper and easier to buy a roll of 120 film of the same emulsion and create your own film test:

1. Obtain a black towel or other textured pure black object.
2. Obtain a white towel or other textured pure white object.
3. Ensure that the lighting is not going to change for an hour or so.
4. Determine the zone 5 reading for the given lighting, using a gray card.
5. Determine the zone 5 reading for the black towel
6. Determine the zone 5 reading for the white towel
5. Take a series of shots in 1/2 stop steps from the black reading to the white reading.
7. Check the results and find the shots in which the black towel starts to show detail - this is your minimum exposure level.
8. Check the results and find the shots in which the white towel starts to show detail - this is your maximum exposure level.
9. Compare the minimum and maximum exposures to the gray exposure and you will have the correct minimum and maximum "zones" to use for all future shooting on that emulsion.

[ic-racer]

When getting the EI for transparence film, many use 0.2 instead of 0.1 log d. Also, remember that this will fall 4 or 5 stops ABOVE zone V. So you are essentially going to base the exposure off the highlight areas.

Personally I think there are too many variables to control. For example, the light source used for any sensitometric testing of the film's curve and tonal range will need to be exactly the same as your subject.

Personally I'd keep it simple and not think twice about bracketing exposure around an average reading, but this is one of those threads that could easily go on for multiple pages...

[Joanna Carter]

When getting the EI for transparence film, many use 0.2 instead of 0.1 log d. Also, remember that this will fall 4 or 5 stops ABOVE zone V. So you are essentially going to base the exposure off the highlight areas.

?????????? The rule for exposing transparency is usually expose for the shadows and filter the highlights where possible.

Personally I'd keep it simple and not think twice about bracketing exposure around an average reading

I have never needed to bracket to expose transparency film. After determining the range of a film using the black and white towel exposure tests, i can guarantee the right exposre every time, with only one shot. Saves a whole load of film and expense at the lab.

[Chris Strobel]

Wouldn't you just meter for where you absolutely don't want blown highs and place that on Zone VII e.g. snow, and let the shadows fall where they may?I have two boxes of 8x10 chrome in the freezer, but have never shot color, so I'm interested in this as well.

[Jacques-Mtl]

Actually, the range on slide film varies, from as little as 3-3.5 stops for Velvia 50 to around 6 stops for Astia 100F.

The trick is get to know what the range of your chosen film is and also how much of that range is under and over the "zone 5" exposure for a given subject.

e.g.
For Velvia 100 - 4 stops range - -2 to +2
1. Measure the reading for the darkest shadow that you want to see detail (Zone 3)
2. Reduce this exposure by 2 stops to give you a corrected "zone 5" exposure for the whole image.
3. meter around the subject to determine if any part of the image is more than 2 stops over the "zone 5" reading - if it is, then decide whether you can use a grad filter (for something like a sky), or whether you are going to have to wait for the light to change.

Of course, you can't easily over or under develop E6 film like you can B&W, so you usually end up learning how and when to shoot for the limited range of these films.

For determining the range of a film, it is cheaper and easier to buy a roll of 120 film of the same emulsion and create your own film test:

1. Obtain a black towel or other textured pure black object.
2. Obtain a white towel or other textured pure white object.
3. Ensure that the lighting is not going to change for an hour or so.
4. Determine the zone 5 reading for the given lighting, using a gray card.
5. Determine the zone 5 reading for the black towel
6. Determine the zone 5 reading for the white towel
5. Take a series of shots in 1/2 stop steps from the black reading to the white reading.
7. Check the results and find the shots in which the black towel starts to show detail - this is your minimum exposure level.
8. Check the results and find the shots in which the white towel starts to show detail - this is your maximum exposure level.
9. Compare the minimum and maximum exposures to the gray exposure and you will have the correct minimum and maximum "zones" to use for all future shooting on that emulsion.

Thank you Joanna, I will try this.

[Joanna Carter]

Wouldn't you just meter for where you absolutely don't want blown highs and place that on Zone VII e.g. snow, and let the shadows fall where they may?I have two boxes of 8x10 chrome in the freezer, but have never shot color, so I'm interested in this as well.

That depends on the rendering intent you want for the image. If shadow detail is important, then you must regard the possibility of blocked detail and expose for the shadows. It is easier to apply a grad filter to the highlights than it is to try and print out blocked shadows.

[Lenny Eiger]

Of course, you can't easily over or under develop E6 film like you can B&W, so you usually end up learning how and when to shoot for the limited range of these films.

I'm a b&w shooter, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I remember when I was 9 developing E6 for my dad in reels in his darkroom (early '60's). When did it become "nearly impossible" to do this without super-hi-tech temp controls?

When I went to school, my first Photo 101 was taught be a woman who watered down the 2nd developer and achieved a very soft, beautiful palette. With my apologies to those who love this stuff - I always hated the kodak palette, the worst was the garish cibachrome - who ever thought of such colors? Yuck! This person's beautiful color prints were a breath of fresh air.

Did they do something to the film or chemistry to make this kind of experimentation impossible?

Just curious....

Lenny

[Joanna Carter]

When did it become "nearly impossible" to do this without super-hi-tech temp controls?

Lenny, I never said "nearly impossible" and I certainly never even whispered anything about "super-hi-tech temp controls" - please don't misquote me. I merely stated that it was not easily done; at least, not with any degree of certainty of the outcome.

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny, I never said "nearly impossible" and I certainly never even whispered anything about "super-hi-tech temp controls" - please don't misquote me. I merely stated that it was not easily done; at least, not with any degree of certainty of the outcome.

Joanna, don't take this personally. I wasn't trying to suggest you single-handedly had ended all creativity. You simply expressed something that I have heard everywhere, that I question. (Or am curious about.) It really had nothing to do with you at all....

Lenny