Sinar Norma question

[Ivan J. Eberle]

I'm drawn to the design and precision, but also want a monorail that's practical and fully functional too.

With the bag bellows, what's the W/A lens limit in millimeters on flat and recessed boards?

Does the standard 4x5 bellows have any problem with fast lenses with large rear elements and interference?

From what I can determine the 4x5 rear standard is an International back... but the others including the reduction backs from 8x10 and 5x7 are Spring backs, is this correct? Is the early pre-Norma version back design also International?

Re: roll film-- any hitches to using Graflok roll film holders to 6x12cm on the 4x5 back? Short of fabbing a whole 'nuther rear standard from scratch, any path to 6x17?

[Frank Petronio]

You can make the rear element of your lens touch your ground glass, so there is no practical limit, but I guess it depends on the depth of your lens's rear element.

The square bellows is square so if the lens will fit onto a lensboard it will fit into the camera, just allow a 1/4-inch or so for the light trap.

You'll just have to look at the backs in question, but the better and OEM reduction backs have the same clip as the Sinar 4x5 format frames so that you can use the back from your 4x5 on the 8x10 or whatever. There is no such thing as a 5x7 Graflock as far as I know.

A Chinese, Horseman, Linhof, or Sinar 6x12 back should work fine.

I think there was a Chinese 6x17 back that extended out from a 4x5 Graflock but I never paid attention to the details.

[Peter K]

Is the early pre-Norma version back design also International?

As you can see here the Norma was the first Sinar camera. There was also a spring-back 5x7"/13x18cm aviable for single film holders. But I've never seen a Graflock back for any camera bigger as 4x5".

There is a Gaoersi 6x17 back for 4x5" Graflock backs aviable.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

So the grayish-black and not olive-painted ones with Norma-style uprights are Normas as well?
Admit some confusion on this point as there was mention of a pre-Norma design in another thread awhile back and I see a few come up at auction without being called Normas.

[Frank Petronio]

I think the first Sinar was called the Standard and it looks like the Norma from a distance, the Norma was more refined. I haven't seen a Standard -- they are rare -- to know what the color scheme was but the Normas are bare metal/chrome and pale green textured finish. For a user I would definitely want a Norma.

[Bob Salomon]

delete

[Bob Salomon]

I think the first Sinar was called the Standard and it looks like the Norma from a distance, the Norma was more refined. I haven't seen a Standard -- they are rare -- to know what the color scheme was but the Normas are bare metal/chrome and pale green textured finish. For a user I would definitely want a Norma.

The first Sinar was a wooden studio portrait camera.
There was the Norma, then the P then the P2. Then there were parts that were assembled in different combinations to make other models, C, F, F+, etc.

Some special models including the Alpina and the X were also made.

[Peter K]

So the grayish-black and not olive-painted ones with Norma-style uprights are Normas as well?
Admit some confusion on this point as there was mention of a pre-Norma design in another thread awhile back and I see a few come up at auction without being called Normas.

Do you think about this thread? It's no Sinar camera.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Thanks, everybody.

Saw a recent auction with what was supposed to be a 5x7>4x5 Norma reduction back which looked to be a spring and not Int'l/Graflock back. But if I got the gist of what Frank said, there also must be another reducer that makes it a simple matter to clip the front half of a 4x5 International back onto a 5x7 standard, no?

With regards to 6x17, my presumption is that there could be a bottleneck to actually seeing the edges, and this would be the image circle described by the Norma 4x5 square bellows vignetting... or, stated another way, being that the 5x7 bellows are larger and tapered, that these were in fact requisite for hitting 5x7, at least to the corners, and not just for fitting the 5x7 rear standard. Maybe somebody can tell me if this is a valid concern, or reason enough to hold out for a 5x7 since I shoot only color in 4x5 and roll film.

[Frank Petronio]

The early Sinars weren't green or called Normas. And the ironic thing is that they were designed by the guy who went on to make Arca-Swiss cameras.

Here are some old photos I found, with the Koch boy demoing an early model. Notice the Arca levers!