leave Wista 45SP for Chamonix 45N-1?

[Clement Apffel]

That's it, I ordered the 45N-1 in Teak, grey parts, with the universal bellows, and the fresnel placed on top. I let you know when I got it.

Thanks to everyone to have helped here.

Greg

Yes, please. I'm waiting your review of this new GG+fresnel sandwich.

Enjoy your new camera!
(and the wait for it ! )

Concerning the Chamonix announcement, I agree with GPS on the weakness of the solution concerning the users of the old version.
The center drilled fresnel is not an option any view camera owner would consider.

And on the other hand, it is true that shipping a new back with the new GG+fresnel sandwich to all users would probably bankrupt Chamonix.

But actually, I think many users wouldn't want that.
Because whatever people say Chamonix still offers large format cameras that are unique in their way (light, flexible, inexpensive, custom-made formats, ULF...), and that people would want to buy in the coming years.

So it is not a simple problem of "business". Because of the fact that this little firm seduced a lot of large format users.

Other point: the new GG+Fresnel sandwich is probably more expansive than the original setting. Therefore, the price of the new version could increase a bit.
And maybe Chamonix will offer the two options: 45N-2 with Fresnel and 45N-2 without Fresnel.
Thus the users that want their old camera to be fixed could be charged of that price difference between the 45n-1 and the 45n-2. that way, it would reduce the “fixing” cost for Chamonix.

Just a random thought
At least, if I had the use of a Fresnel lens, I would agree with that extra expense to “upgrade” my 45n-1 into a 45n-2.




Yes that new annoucement is akward, but I'm waiting the acting, I don't care of the marketing.

Clément "not that badly disgruntled" Apffel

[GPS]

Well, Clément, I agree with you too that - tossing the awkward Fresnel away from it -the camera certainly is an option for many amateurs to consider, despite all other shortcomings it has. It's just that merchandise should be declared correctly for what it is, to avoid mystifying customers...

[Clement Apffel]

True.

But, if I may ask, what are the "all other shortcomings" the 45n-1 has ?
Because in my experience, the fresnel one was the only one. Or maybe are you talking about more subjective drawbacks such as the lightweight / precision compromise ?

[GPS]

True.

But, if I may ask, what are the "all other shortcomings" the 45n-1 has ?
Because in my experience, the fresnel one was the only one. Or maybe are you talking about more subjective drawbacks such as the lightweight / precision compromise ?

The irritating lack of zero detents and markings, just to name an example.

[gregvds]

I agree that at least the communication put up by Chamonix should be clear, honest and straightforward. They should also choose the best solution to solve the problem (I mean, invert the fresnel GG order, or replace the trimmed down fresnel by a 4x5 one that fits perfectly on top, without any paperclips fiddling solution) and at least offer this for free, but maybe not shipping to and from.

From my point of view, the zero detent on the tilt of the back of my Wista SP is annoying, for you are not able to put a very small amount of tilt, either you fall into the zero detent, or you put more than the detent, which is instantly too much sometimes. So, markings, ok, but are there no markings for the zero positions? They are surely mandatory to put things straight, but zero detent, I find it sometimes really disturbing. If detent, then with a way to mechanically disable it.

Greg

[Clement Apffel]

GPS, with your fastidious and fierce investigator tendencies, I thought you were better informed than you are about the brand you are hammering at.

Yes of course 45N-1 has zero markings everywhere you could possibly want them. And pretty convenient ones, for the record.
The only downside is that they are sometimes hard to see in low light conditions. Just be sure to bring a flashlight if shooting in such conditions.

Maybe they forgot the markings on yours GPS ! but wait a sec, what model of Chamonix do you own already? Can’t remember.

Like I said, the “all other shortcomings” are just compromise like on any other field camera.
Chamonix choosed the extreme lightweight and compactness with its much known downside: no geared movements or micrometric stuff.

That’s exactly for that reason I went with the 45N-1 besides its reasonable price.

cheers

[gregvds]

I could add something more,

I choose the 45N-1 for its aesthetic aspect also. Sorry, I'm sensitive to that aspect of all the objects I own and use, they need to fit some kind of idea of beauty I have about them (fountain pen, knife, watch, lenses, you name it, I need them also to be pleasing to the eye, I couldn't do with an ugly one). For example, the Chamonix copy made by Shen-Hao has awful black rubbery plastic knobs which render that camera a no go for me. In comparison, the back of the Chamonix is also far more straightforward and simple in design than Shen-Hao's, or Ebony ones, which are also really nice, but somehow cumbersome to my eyes.

But I'm ready to concede that this is a really no point stance, and very personal, not helping anyone, but it explains maybe why this one for me, that's all.

And from that point of view, no obvious useless (for me) markings or sticked label or cheap printed aluminium rules all over the wood frames is a blessing.

And yes I make picture with my cameras.

Greg

[GPS]

...
Yes of course 45N-1 has zero markings everywhere you could possibly want them. And pretty convenient ones, for the record.
The only downside is that they are sometimes hard to see in low light conditions. Just be sure to bring a flashlight if shooting in such conditions.

...cheers

Sounds like very pretty convenient, indeed...

Make yourself a favor (I know you don't like when I'm investigative) and research the thread "Chamonix vs other <$1000 4x5 field cameras" - if you want to read about other shortcomings on Chamonix cameras... And don't forget to recall the shortcoming you yourself wrote about in yet another thread (the problem with bag bellows and a 65mm lens).
And if you want to be even more fastidious to yourself you can look for the thread where Hugo writes about the bubble level that, perhaps, will be changed...

[Clement Apffel]

Thanks for the thread reference, I'll take a look. Cause I am indeed very interested to see what other <1000$ solution exists.
But I think I know that thread… because guess what: that is one of the thread that decided me into going with the 45N-1. So I guess that thread is not flaming the 45N-1 so badly is it?
[EDIT : I just red it quite fast to find “the other shortcomings” and I find some that are not happening on my 45N-1 that was batched 6 months after this thread.]

Concerning the markings, let’s let the appreciation to the users shall we?
I use a 45N-1, I say they are very convenient. Period. Other users, other opinions. People can make their own mind from that, not from belief from people who never touched the concerned camera.

Bag bellows: only a problem with ultra-wide lenses.
And most ultra-wide lenses barely covers 4x5”. So no big deal.
Only real shortcoming of this: if you plan to shoot rollfilm with wide angles like 47 or 65.
In that case, yes, you should consider a specifically wide-angle designed camera.
I use the bag bellows on 90mm and can use the full range of movements the image circle provides i.e. 230+ mm. sounds good enough to me.

And just to be clear: the bag bellows problem is caused by the bed of the camera. i.e. it sounds to me that any field camera with a bed would have hard time to accommodate ultra-wide with bag bellows.
And in the thread you mention (the <1000$ one) some users say that 47 is usable with no movements, 58 with more movements than some other cameras.
So again, another no-problem problem

Bubble levels: true. The 2 levels on the rear standard are inconsistent on my camera. But I use a hand level to level all the large format camera I use. So yes, you do need a 20 grams gear added to the backpack. It makes no difference to me.

Oh, and you are maybe mentioning the falling level on rear standard? Only has to do with my usage and approximate care of the camera I use. But I guess it wouldn’t have happen with another camera. Who knows?

Anyway, one more time: yes that is true, the 45N-1 is not the perfect camera an Ebony SV45Ti probably is.
But it is good enough for my needs and there is no way I’ll pay 3000€ for a “probably perfection” (that’s only my opinion)

And also : don’t think I am the all-forgiving-because-I-bought-it kind of guy: I am actually probably as fastidious as you are when it comes to cameras and gears, I had experiences with other cameras that were not satisfying me at all : I never talk about them, and I would never take their defence nor recommend them to another user.

If I say all this and take the time to write all this about the 45N-1 it is just because:
1) I think some users might find their perfect camera in this one, because it is a good and very special one despite some imperfections.
2) I find that this camera deserves some positive feedback to counterbalance all the exaggerated flames we red, read and will read about it.

from now on, I think the potential buyers looking for infos had all they need to have.

kind regards,
CA

[Doug Dolde]

So what is so great about a Chamonix? I've seen people even dump their Arca Swiss for one. I find it hard to believe that it is that wonderful.