What happens to JOBO CPP2 processor with only 1st upgrade motor?

[mandoman7]

Maybe gravity works differently over there...

[mandoman7]

Here's the thread that I'm referring to: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...jobo+direction

... and here's the quote from Greg Blank.
"In testing and repairing the CPP2 processors, I believe the bi-direction rotation when using Expert Drum is detrimental to the reversal circuit. The original design of the Jobo was for the bi-directional microswitch to be used for paper drum not the Expert Drums the design predates the Expert drum. The design of the Expert drums causes the bi direction surface flow of chemistry, regardless of the motor reversing. I have processed film both ways and there is no apparent difference to me. However I will say that over time due to the relay switching the motor polarity that under load of a fully loaded 8x10 drum something will die. The design of the circuit ramps power to keep the motor speed consistent as load is increased. Eventual a component or multiple components burn out."

[Greg Blank]

The reason that bi directional chemical flow happens regardless and I might add that I have been doing both 4x5 and eight by ten for some time this way. Is that as each cylinder "film tube" passes the zero "down position" or 12 o'clock high position the liquid is entering into to or out of the top and bottom tubes, this front to back motion is combined with a certain amount of natural side to side movement within each tube, this seems to me to be quite adequate to not produce flow marks.

For those that do not know this appears to me to be almost exactly the ANSI-ISO standard which was described for processing to determine film speeds, although sadly I am not sure where exactly I read the info. Either in Todd and Zakia's Sensitometry book or the National Archive file on Photographic Film testing.

Anyway at one point I devised a method to rock my test samples back and forth in a tray producing the same sort of consistent results, side to side back to front while the sample remained stationary on a plexiglass insert inside the stainless tray. At the time I used a water bath in an outer tray to regulate the inner tray temperature.

Here's the thread that I'm referring to: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...jobo+direction

... and here's the quote from Greg Blank.
"In testing and repairing the CPP2 processors, I believe the bi-direction rotation when using Expert Drum is detrimental to the reversal circuit. The original design of the Jobo was for the bi-directional microswitch to be used for paper drum not the Expert Drums the design predates the Expert drum. The design of the Expert drums causes the bi direction surface flow of chemistry, regardless of the motor reversing. I have processed film both ways and there is no apparent difference to me. However I will say that over time due to the relay switching the motor polarity that under load of a fully loaded 8x10 drum something will die. The design of the circuit ramps power to keep the motor speed consistent as load is increased. Eventual a component or multiple components burn out."

[vinny]

While it may not be needed for even development, I found that some change of direction is needed to avoid the issue of getting chemicals to all the places they need to get to.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...highlight=jobo

[SamReeves]

My rotation switch has pretty much taken a crap as it works once a session, but the negs have been developing fine in the Expert tanks. Watch your RPM's though. The recommended speed setting can be giving more or less than the recommended RPM's by Jobo. I found that out the hard way.

[Ginette]

Very interesting topic before buying an used Jobo.

I never use and never see a Jobo processor but eventually interested to buy one.

My question, is it easy to differentiate the models (upgrades 1 to 3) by their visual aspects ?

If I submit this CPP2 lift to your attention, can you tell me if it is a recent model?
Any comment about missing parts or its condition ? What should be a fair price for it without drums?

Thanks for the help.

________
Edit
Can I find an user manual online ? or someone who wish to share it?

[Jim C.]

My question, is it easy to differentiate the models by their visual aspects ?

Ginette, take a look at this url -

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_ana...2_cpp-2_00.htm

the above link will tell you the differences.

Any comment about missing parts or its condition ?

It looks like it needs a good washing, very dusty if you purchase it I would
buy new chemical containers.
The Lift looks like it's missing the handle.

[Greg Blank]

Bonjour Mme Ginette;

Puisque je vois que vous vivez au Québec, je suppose que vous parlez français et même si je pense que c'est une belle langue, malheureusement je n'ai pas appris à parler ou à écrire dans ma vie antérieure, Merci au traducteur peut - être que Google N'a pas d'importance?


L'ascenseur photo dans votre image est un ascenseur âgés de style car il a les clips blancs, de retenir le tambour. Les remontées mécaniques de style plus récents ont un ensemble de Black drum clips de rétention, un clip en haut et l'autre sur le fond de la gouttière. Vous voyez que mai un ascenseur ancien style a en fait des trous pour installer les clips les plus récents. Il y aura quatre trous de vis si l'ascenseur peut accepter les clips de rétention nouveau style.

En termes de réparation, je ne conseille pas à mes clients de me payer pour faire des réparations ascenseur parce que le démontage et le remontage de l'ascenseur sont très consommatrices de temps, et je dois payer ce service. Un nouvel ascenseur en comparaison est moins cher que quelques heures de mon temps. Il ya également un joint d'étanchéité interne qui est presque impossible de les remplacer si les fuites d'ascenseur, une fois que l'ascenseur est démonté le joint est un gros problème.

Si vous souhaitez obtenir plus d'informations relatives à l'achat d'un nouvel ascenseur i peut fournir le courant nord-américain coût de détail en me contactant à gblank@omegasatter.com, mon entreprise est de l'Amérique du Nord et du Sud distributeur américain de Jobo et je réponds à tous les courriels rapidement.


Hello Ms Ginette;

The lift pictured in your image is an older style lift because it has the white clips, to retain the drum. The newer style lifts have a set of black drum retention clips, one clip the top and one on the bottom of the spout. You may see that an older style lift does in fact have holes for installing the newer clips. There will be four screw holes if the lift can accept the new style retention clips.

In terms of repair, I don't advise my customers to pay me to do any lift repairs because the disassembly and reassembly of the lift are very time consumptive, and I must charge for this service. A new lift by comparison is less expensive than a few hours of my time. There is also an internal gasket which is almost impossible to replace if the lift leaks,once the lift is taken apart the gasket is a big problem.

If you wish more information related to purchasing a new lift i can provide the current North American retail cost by contacting me at gblank@omegasatter.com, my company is the North American & South American distributor of Jobo and I answer all emails promptly

Very interesting topic before buying an used Jobo.

I never use and never see a Jobo processor but eventually interested to buy one.

My question, is it easy to differentiate the models (upgrades 1 to 3) by their visual aspects ?

If I submit this CPP2 lift to your attention, can you tell me if it is a recent model?
Any comment about missing parts or its condition ? What should be a fair price for it without drums?

Thanks for the help.

________
Edit
Can I find an user manual online ? or someone who wish to share it?

[Ginette]

Thanks Greg for the white clips cue. I just received the info from the seller and serial number is in the 14300 range so it just have the first upgrade "Changed single bearing rotation motor to a double bearing rotation motor."
( http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_ana...etins/b019.htm )

I think the price is fair if the unit work well : 500$ with 7 print drums. Local pick-up is the only way to do and such units are not offered often here in Montreal.

But my deception will be great if the unit slug with a 3005 drum because I don't buy it to run prints but films. I actually process 8x10 films in Unicolor drums with separators (8x10, 11x14) with the motor base.

I still not have the 3005 drum to test the unit but I can run a test with the 3063 Print Drum 20x24" (included). Can I suppose that the 3005 will perform the same way the 3063 will do?

As I understand the whole unit Greg, a new lift will not include the motor nor the circuitry ? A new lift will not solve all the problems.

The Lift looks like it's missing the handle.

Is the handle a removing part or it means it is broken ?

PS: Google is not really brillant in the translation:
The lift pictured in your image -> Google translation : L'ascenseur photo dans votre image ... means -> The elevator photo in your image !!

[Greg Blank]

Hi Ginette

I should stay with speaking english then The arrangment you have seems like a good bargain. Especially that large print drum, which is no longer produced by Jobo.
In someone's minds' eye it could be worth the whole 500$

The double bearing motor is a straight shaft motor however, not the newest cone shaped shaft, the newest cone shape shaft- motor is most desirable because they were the robust motors used on Professional ATL machines and have more torque to turn heavy drums. So you will need to exert care when using 8x10 drums or any large drum.

You should limit the chemical amount to 500 ml. You can use multiple changes of chemistry during the process run to have enough fresh chemistry on the film thoughout the whole process time frame.

Omega Satter where I work, sells the arm as an assembly approximately 40$ <I believe>. The lift does not have the motor inside- you are correct. If the motor hesitates with 500ml of chemistry in any drum you "could need a new motor". There can be other factors.

gblank@omegasatter.com

Thanks Greg for the white clips cue. I just received the info from the seller and serial number is in the 14300 range so it just have the first upgrade "Changed single bearing rotation motor to a double bearing rotation motor."
( http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_ana...etins/b019.htm )

I think the price is fair if the unit work well : 500$ with 7 print drums. Local pick-up is the only way to do and such units are not offered often here in Montreal.

But my deception will be great if the unit slug with a 3005 drum because I don't buy it to run prints but films. I actually process 8x10 films in Unicolor drums with separators (8x10, 11x14) with the motor base.

I still not have the 3005 drum to test the unit but I can run a test with the 3063 Print Drum 20x24" (included). Can I suppose that the 3005 will perform the same way the 3063 will do?

As I understand the whole unit Greg, the lift didn't include the motor nor the circuitry ? A new lift will not solve all the problems.


Is the handle a removing part or it means it is broken ?

PS: Google is not really brillant in the translation:
The lift pictured in your image -> Google translation : L'ascenseur photo dans votre image ... means -> The elevator photo in your image !!