Questions re vandyke processing

[sanking]

thanks a lot sandy!!! i wanna try your pyro next time. would this be best for alt printing? read a lot of good things about pyro!

back to topic. so, then i will expose my film normally then overdevelop (twice the developing time for use in silver printing) the film to achive more density in the negative, developer is not much of an issue here right? how about grains and other usual stuff you get when you overdeveloped your negative. would the details suffer as well (just like in 35mm and mediumformat)

not sure about dmin and dmax though.. if my negative is overdeveloped can i still use it for silver printing? or atleast a normal scan.. i want to try other alt-process though i don't know if overdeveloping would help me achieve a good print on any other alt-process. hope i'm making sense here. thanks again for the help!

Pyrocat-HD is definitely a good developer for alternative printing. The stain gives a boost in contrast and sharpness is excellent.

Basically I don't know if it is possible to make a negative that will print well in both vandyke and regular silver printing. If you develop long enough to get the contrast you need for vandyke you will have to print in silver with a very low contrast filter. That may work, but the requirements for the two processes are so different you would probably get better results optimizing your development for one or the other.

Sandy King

[tenderobject]

Pyrocat-HD is definitely a good developer for alternative printing. The stain gives a boost in contrast and sharpness is excellent.

Basically I don't know if it is possible to make a negative that will print well in both vandyke and regular silver printing. If you develop long enough to get the contrast you need for vandyke you will have to print in silver with a very low contrast filter. That may work, but the requirements for the two processes are so different you would probably get better results optimizing your development for one or the other.

Sandy King

thank you again sandy!

[J. E. Brown]

A quick question regarding a part of Vandyke processing.

Part of the formula I will be using requires tartaric acid. I have found where I can order this, but would cream of tartar (potassium hydrogen tartrate) work as well?

Just a quick thought, as I have all of the other reagents on hand, and don't want to invest too heavily into the Vandyke process if it isn't going to be for me.

As always, thanks for the replies.


Kind regards,

-J.B.

[jp]

I bought a kit from Bostick & Sullivan; was easier and probably cheaper than tracking down the various ingredients in random volumes. They can get you started for $26.95.

[J. E. Brown]

jp498,

The only thing I am lacking in my laboratory right now is tartaric acid. If I where able to use cream of tartar in place of tartaric acid, I would be able to try a few practice sheets this weekend with a simple trip to my spice cupboard.

I might try it anyway to satisfy my curiosity and get the kit and see what the differences are. Unless someone else has already tried this?


$26.95 is very reasonable to get started though. Thanks for the tip.


Kind regards,

-J.B.

[Tim Povlick]

I've tried double coating numerous times with Van Dyke process and each time it seems the image is forming on top of the original coat. Now I make sure the first coat is good and leave it at that.

For film, one can't beat Kodak Aero PanX-II for contrast, if you can find it. A good alternative is Tmax-400.

I expose using the sun which really makes for some variability but after some experience one can check the exposure before developing. There does seem to be a big difference in results once it's past 4PM local time. Around noon +/- is better.

One can tone in a Platinum toner to get the brown more black. Maybe print will last longer also.

I use the Bostick & Sullivan kit. They have Pd toner as well.

This is much easier process than Pd - gave up on that.

_ .. --
Tim

[sanking]

Assuming that your coating technique is good and that you have a good negative and that your process vandyke well there is no question but that double coating will give slightly more Dmax (shadow density) than single coating. This is true for most other hand coated processes as well, say true kallitype or pt/pd.

However, the double coating does not have to be 100% vandyke sensitizer. I dilute the first coat one part vandyke sensitizer + one art water, and follow with a full strength solution about five minutes later. This works as well (in terms of shadow density) as two full strength coats.

Sandy

[CharlesWest]

I've been doing Van Dykes quite a while now. I can't speak for anywhere else, but, in California, you need to crank up the room to around 80 degrees and 70 percent humidity, and keep the paper in that room for at least an hour. Coat the paper (I use Arches Platine, or Bienfang 360) with a Purdy 2" brush, and do it under pretty bright light. Bright enough, so after coating back and forth, up and down two or three time, you can see a completely even shine over the whole top of the coated space. It must be completely even, and wet, but not sopping. Then, you can turn out the light and shut the door for ten minutes and wait for the shine to dry a bit. When the shine is gone, blow dry with a hair dryer till it's dry, on both sides. Immediately print. Otherwise, if you take the paper out of the room, the lack of humidity will dry it farther, and everything is ruined. With duplicating film, I can get great D-Max at around 6:30 minutes. With OHP, 11:30 minutes. Both, with potassium dichromate in the water bath "developer." I never have to coat twice using this method. Perfect D-Max every time. You must test for your exposure unit, the paper, and the chemistry. Change any one of those, and your numbers will change.

With silver gelatin negatives, d-max times are meaningless. Every negative taken under different circumstances will have a different exposure time, some up to 45 minutes to get any kind of highlight detail. Don't forget the dichromate in the developer.
My exposure unit is 4 two foot black lights, about 3 inches above the glass.

Toning in selenium works great, too, but you need to overexpose around 20%. I'll post if I get round to it. Just did some tests. One capful Kodak Rapid Selenium toner in one quart water works great. Remember, it does bleach the entire image.


Hot off the press, just dried, over exposed too far, but still a decent proof print. Selenium toned Van Dyke, single coating.

Reading the information on the back, I just figured out my mistake. My older exposure unit is considerably slower than my newer unit. I used the wrong unit. Back to printing...

[D. Bryant]

I've been doing Van Dykes quite a while now. Back to printing...

That image is very pretty Charles.

How do you fix your VDBs?

And do you tone after or before fixing?

And how much dichromate do you use? And why?

Don Bryant

[CharlesWest]

Unless your negative is perfect, or digital, you'll probably need a bit of dichromate in the water to get any kind of highlights. Test about three prints processed exactly the same way, except for water/dichromate. Start with 5-10 drops per quart and go from there. Very little is quite strong.

If I'm not toning: water, fix 1, fix 2, hypo clear, wash.
If I am toning: water, toner, fix 1, fix 2, hypo clear, wash.

Palladium or platinum or both work fine, too, as toners.
(Since selenium toner is 1/3 rapid fixer!! you almost don't need to fix at all, but I do anyway for consistency.)