To All 5x7 Photographers: 5x7 Portra 160 NC: Official Notice of Purchase

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

I have done business with Badger and B&H and they are both top notch . If Larry has organized this with Badger so that is our choice if we want 5x7" Portra. So sign up and be thankful to Larry. Color Services in Needham organize similar order two years ago and it only stimulated B&H to have it in stock for awhile.

[r.e.]

Have you ever placed a special order with b&h or asked them about an item which isn't in their catalog?

Yes.

Why don't you cough up the entire sum for 30 boxes...

Funny you should ask. Had this not been presented as a fait accompli, I would have been prepared to do that. In fact, I think that it would have been pretty easy to arrange for two or three of us to make the order and then parcel it out, payment via PayPal. I mean, this is (or should have been, were it not for the demand of the apparently preferred vendor) about buying 30 boxes of film, not the Hope Diamond. If you look earlier in this thread, you'll see a question about getting film to Europe. Well, back in the beginning of November, when this thread started, it might have been possible to make an order for delivery before Christmas, and as it happens, I am going to Europe from New York on Boxing Day, and could have taken a bunch of film with me, which would have saved people there a pile of VAT, not to mention cross-Atlantic postage.

As matters currently stand, if I or a group of two or three of us make an order, it will be in competition with the "Official Notice of Purchase". Not a lot of point at this stage, is there, even if it would have been a good deal more efficient.

[ljsegil]

r.e., there was plenty of time for you or any other interested party to take the lead on this purchase before I made the arrangement with Badger. Where were you then? I made the best arrangement that I could when it was apparent no other plan was being put forward. I don't see you or anyone else showing any evidence of having actually done anything at all at any point in time other than gripe. I would have done this better if I could have done so, but this current arrangement is the one that was within the realm of possibility for me. Your idea is a fine one, it's a pity you didn't come forward when the need was apparent and the opportunity begging. I guess you felt it better kept as a secret?
Larry, wonker
and thanks for the new nom de plume. Perhaps now I'll get an avatar.

[r.e.]

Larry,

Actually, what I did was take delivery of 2 actual, not theoretical, boxes of Portra a couple of days before you started this thread. The thread, entitled "Official Notice of Purchase", pre-empted any discussion about alternatives. In fact, I floated a couple of alternatives early on, including a buying group (also raised on APUG) or a purchase from B&H (which will accept an order for half of what Badger insists on), and also said that I was good for $1,600 on an order, and I was outright dismissed. I also got an unsolicited message from you that was entirely about this "Official Purchase" and that showed no willingness whatsoever to discuss alternatives. If I didn't respond, it was because it was obvious that there was no point. Your current statements are an exercise in blatant revisionism.

So where matters stand now, I have 100 sheets, a commercial Traulsen freezer in which to store film and a willingness to spend another $1600. If an opportunity arises for a clean, fast deal, one that doesn't involve weekly pleas about how the world will end if I don't call Badger, I'd be willing to go for $2000, or a third of the order. Depending on where this "Official Purchase" goes, I may indeed front the money for a full order myself. One of the problems with the fact that Badger is in complete control of this is that it is impossible to know the strength of demand, who the serious buyers are and where they are located geographically, all of which would be helpful, not just for a purchase now, but for the future. In other words, B&H's position that people form a buying group was good, and I think that 30 boxes would have been accounted for weeks ago, quite possibly in time to have taken a bunch of them to Europe in a couple of weeks.

[ljsegil]

r.e.
I want to make one thing clear and then I think you and I have said enough. Badger is not a "bad guy" in this deal. Kodak is insisting on a minimum purchase of sixty boxes, whether from Badger, B&H, or you and I. With its much greater resources, B&H is probably planning to lay away thirty boxes to sell after someone else funds half the purchase for them. They can then retail those extra boxes for whatever price they choose. Badger is not a business that comes remotely close to B&H in size and muscle and Jeff cannot afford to purchase half an order for his own inventory, thus the need for us to generate an order for sixty boxes ourselves. Jeff is not trying to take advantage of us at all, on the other hand he has very graciously extended his help to me in trying to make this purchase possible by acting as a logistic and distribution agent. I doubt he stands to make much money on this purchase, though I obviously don't actually know. Frankly, if you wanted to make a run on a thirty box purchase through B&H I doubt he would be offended and might well offer up the list of those of us who have already expressed interest.
We should not be in conflict on this issue. Our purposes are the same, we have differed primarily only in method, and mine unfortunately offended you. As I have said, no offense was ever intended, and consider my missteps to merely reflect my lack of any expertise at all in this sort of exercise. Why not forgive our differences, pool our resources, and make this work. That is all, ultimately, that I think any of us want.
Larry, wonky
I do think I'm growing to like the moniker. It's a bit unusual in this part of the continent.

[r.e.]

Larry, I'm sorry, but your tone changes from post to post. It comes off as a psychological game.

Regarding your various claims about what Kodak will do/won't do/plans to do, you told me in your unsolicited personal message, intended to get me to buy in, that you have not spoken with them: "[B&H] were my first call (except for the one that Kodak would never answer)". That was on November 11, and that sentence is pretty much the point where I wrote this off completely.

Badger won't offer up a list of buyers for the simple and frankly obvious reason that it would be a blatant disrespect for privacy.

I have no idea why you think that you have offended me, apart from the statements in your next to last post, which are less offensive than ridiculous.

My position on an order stands. I (and apparently some other people who aren't keen on this) am not going to participate in your "Official Order", and I am not going to compete with it. The assertion that this is my last chance to buy colour print film is nonsense, and I'll make arrangements for my needs when it looks like a deal can be done fast and clean with no fuss. I'm also interested in doing a deal that takes into account, if possible, people's various geographic locations. It's great for you that Badger is 200mi/300km away, but it may or may not be ideal, as a distribution point, for other people.

[Scott --]

[r.e.]

Larry, at this point, I have only one question.

You now say that B&H will bring in 60 boxes if it has an order for 30.

Is this statment based on a discussion with B&H? Pardon me for asking, but there have been a number of statements in this thread about Kodak that are apparently not based on actually speaking with the company.

If you are right about what B&H would do if it had an order for 30 boxes, it means that 30 boxes would be available on a when and as-needed basis. I'm kind of interested in knowing whether that is true.

[Robert Fisher]

re, you don't give up do you?

Don't you have something better to do?

Start your own thread or just shut up.

[lutherasmith]

I am in. It looks like the deal is going to happen. It would be nice it this continued for awhile. I gave up on 5x7 a couple of years ago when 5x7 portra stopped being available. Then one day it was available at B&H. I don't know if they had enough customers using it or what but I was able to buy it for a couple of years from them.
I also purchased 5x7 film holders from Calumet Photo.

I am sorry this thread has become so contentious. I like knowing there are other 5x7 photographers out there.

Best,

Luther