Is photographic integrity dead?

[Drew Wiley]

Kirk - I've been out of the loop for awhile, but at one point I did exhibit with a group
of allegedly "cutting-edge" Asian abstract expressionists (oddly, as both the only
non-Asian and as the only photographer). What was interesting was how all of them
in some aspects took off perhaps even more radically from their Western counterparts, but still managed to instill a very traditional flavor into it. You could
detect both influences present. But I don't think anyone would ever mistake their
work for something coming out of New York! There was just a lot of that more
subtle rhythm adopted from nature and idolized in Eastern tradition - more of a
"Zen" for lack of a better word. I actually felt comfortable within that sort of context. And I've noticed it in a lot of work since. A close friend of mine was very
involved in brining contemporary Chinese painting in particular to the attention of
American museums. You're probably a lot more up to date about what's going on in architecture in this respect, but here inthe Bay Area there are Hong Kong quirks like Fung Shui (did I spell that right?) being practiced by architects due to commercial
demand. But there are no doubt many, many exceptions to any stereotype.

[Drew Wiley]

Got interrupted, Kirk. I wouldn't call myself any more knowledgeable about Japanese photography than the next guy on this forum. Have seen a reasonable amount of it though, but probably not the latest. Don't have any relevant books in my own house except the mtn photographers Shirakawa and Shirohito, who I would say are very Japanese in the feel of their images, especially if you compare them to
people like Washburn or Sella. ... But back to architecture, I'm VERY involved with
what is happening here in N. Cal - where "Zen" is the norm for people with big
money. Utterly different from what one typically finds in LA or Vegas. Around here
you can even find cabinet makers and craftsmen who have studied in Japan and
have imported the styles and techniques. I work with them all the time. So I have
some affinity for stylitic trends, especially since I have been directly involved in
many renovations by major American architects like Julia Morgan etc, and know
the distinction.

[Jack Dahlgren]

Julia Morgan died over 50 years ago and so is hardly an indication of current trends - unless that trend is rather retro. There is no doubt that folks like Maybeck, Morgan and Wright (along with many of the impressionists) were influenced by things such as woodblock prints and wooden architecture out of Japan after it opened up. But Maybeck's and Morgan's work is not particularly "Zen" and draws heavily on classical design - while wrought in local materials.

Of course, when you mention Japanese architecture in Northern California, it tends to be much more "traditional" than Japanese architecture in Japan is. Larry Ellison's shogun's palace type of thing is kind of the typical fetish. Less so would be the sort of concrete buildings which constitute modern Japanese architecture, though not exclusively.

Would be interesting to see some of what you have been involved in Drew.

[Drew Wiley]

Jack - I know more about Ellison's project than I care to know. Yes, that's the kind of
thing being done, until you get inland, where's there's a monster Wolf House sort of
project going on bit by bit. Why I made a comparison with Morgan is her extensive
use of wood, and how her style differs from some of the Japanese-inspired wood
mega-houses being built now. I've been directly involved in the restoration of a number of Julia Morgan buildings, and have lived in two of them. But anyone who gets involved in a Maybeck restoration will never make that mistake again - he was
structually wacko, no matter how much one likes his esthetic. But Morgan was NOT
a long, long time ago in the viewpoint of many architects around here - she's still
perhaps THE primary inspiration in residential design locally, even if things have gone more stereotypically Zen in many cases. Commercial construction is, alas,
more often simply ugly and utilitarian, even if construction methods and energy
efficiency tend to better more state-of-the-art than in other parts of the country.

[Jim collum]

Well, I just got back from Photo LA, and looked at the work hanging by Susan Burnstine ( http://www.susanburnstine.com ). She uses film, hand made cameras and lenses, and then scans the work, printing on inkjet paper. Her work is being carried by a large number of major Photographic Galleries, with the prices in the same range as the rest of the current A list b/w photographers. She was pretty much the star of the show, with a large number of sales happening at the show itself.

I spent time with the owners of the galleries, and neither they, nor the people who bought the prints ($2-$6K range) cared that they were inkjet. They were hung alongside prints by Hiroshi Watanabe and Roman Loranc, and no on batted an eye. (Neither did Hiroshi who was there at the time as well).

[Drew Wiley]

We all make our own rules, Jim, and perhaps obtain a following of likeminded enthusiasts and collectors. It would be nice to see more galleries specialize, but for
many of them, and for the public in general, anything goes. Method of printing,
"archival" characteristics - all is a just footnote to the appeal of the subject itself.
I personally enjoy looking at all kinds of subjects made on all kinds of media; but in terms of personal work, I define the parameters far more strictly. It's not a matter of
who's right or wrong, but of what matches our own specific vision and personality.

[Jim collum]

It's not a matter of
who's right or wrong, but of what matches our own specific vision and personality.

Couldn't have said it better!