The Future of Film Photography

[r_a_feldman]

Digital is also the older technology if one were to do the historical research.

????

The first patent for a transistor was filled in 1925 (certain transistors can be used as photo-receptors to capture digital images, so digital images could have been made after that). Niepce produced his first analog image a century before that. So how can digital (photography/image making) be the older technology? Seurat used "pixels" in his paintings, but the most famous ("Sunday Afternoon ...") dates to 1884, and I would hardly call it "digital."

Bob

[r.e.]

Some twenty years ago the story doing the rounds with undergrad communication and art students was that HD video would make film obsolete and all that training with film being then undertaken would also be obsolete. Today, Kodak still make super 8..

Super-8 is not exactly shining proof of your point. Beaulieu, the last company to make Super-8 cameras, doesn't even make cameras anymore, and Kodak is the only company that still supplies stock. The market for this format is extremely small, consisting of diehard amateurs, budding filmmakers who want to try out film and professionals who use the format to get a particular look. Just about everyone who might use Super-8 is shooting video.

It is the case that Kodak and Fuji continue to make motion picture stock, but there are a couple of points that are perhaps worth making. Both companies are active in motion picture film R&D, but the R&D is geared to reducing the number of stocks available as much as it is to improving the emulsions. Black and white stock isn't even available, and even if it was, there aren't any labs that can process it. Films that are released in black and white, such as 2005's Goodnight and Good Luck, are in fact shot in colour and desaturated. Secondly, even a casual perusal of the magazine American Cinematographer over the last few years, not to mention time spent on the major cinematography fora, shows beyond any doubt that the whole motion picture industry is marching toward video, and that the use of video is rapidly expanding. As for post-production, with respect to both footage and sound, digital tools are at this point a given.

I have more than an academic interest in these issues. I have quite a lot of money invested in a Super 16 camera with integrated time code, and I am increasingly nervous about holding on to it. My rational side says to forget film, sell the camera before I lose my shirt on it and start shooting video.

[Jeremy Moore]

I see. I thought it had to do with the "write speed" to the internal drive like the write speed on a CF card. Yes I am curious about the real times.

Super8k

Line Time : Scan Time

8000x10600px
1/160th : 1:08
1/120th : 1:29
1/100th : 1:47
1/80th : 2:11
1/60th : 2:58
1/50th : 3:33
1/40th : 4:27
1/30th : 5:55
1/25th : 7:24
1/20th : 8:53
1/15th : 11:51
1/12th : 14:48
1/10th : 17:46
1/8th : 22:13

12000x15990px
1/160th : 1:41
1/120th : 2:13
1/100th : 2:40
1/80th : 3:17
1/60th : 4:27
1/50th : 5:20
1/40th : 6:40
1/30th : 8:53
1/25th : 11:06
1/20th : 13:20
1/15th : 17:46
1/12th : 22:13
1/10th : 26:39
1/8th : 33:19

[Robert Hughes]

I have quite a lot of money invested in a Super 16 camera with integrated time code, and I am increasingly nervous about holding on to it. My rational side says to forget film, sell the camera before I lose my shirt on it and start shooting video.

For sure - lose that S16 camera. You should have sold it off 5 years ago. I'm keeping my r16 cameras, but don't really need as many as I still have. Maybe you should buy one of mine, for old time's sake...

[Ben Syverson]

I have quite a lot of money invested in a Super 16 camera with integrated time code, and I am increasingly nervous about holding on to it. My rational side says to forget film, sell the camera before I lose my shirt on it and start shooting video.

Please, sell it now! Over the next 18 months, there are likely to be many product announcements and introductions (Scarlet, various video DSLRs, etc) that will further depress the used market for 16 gear.

[r.e.]

Robert,

Five years ago, I was very comfortable owning this camera We were in the middle of a resurgence in the use of Super 16, especially cameras that had time code, driven by the desire of directors and some cinematographers to use more portable gear, improvements in emulsions and the cost of shooting 35mm.

Now things look a lot hazier. For one thiing, the cost of quality video gear, whether purchased or leased, has come down significantly, and portability has improved.

Ben,

If the competition for this camera was video-capable DSLRs, I'd just hold on to it for playing around because it already wouldn't be worth much. The issue, with respect to this camera and ones made by the other company that still makes this kind of gear, is general trends in the feature film industry and television production. I'll still be able to get my money out of it, but for how much longer is a good question.

[r.e.]

From the point of view of still photography, the question is what impact the transition of the motion picture industry to digital will have on availability of film, particularly colour film. I don't purport to know the answer to this question, but if film industry demand for film continues to drop, one has got to wonder how much longer Kodak and Fuji will produce the stuff.

[Ben Syverson]

It's not video DSLRs per se that will drive 16 further down -- it's the cameras coming out to compete with them and fill the void between them and "real" production gear.

[r.e.]

Yes, I'm aware of what's coming down the pike. Perhaps there's a bit of irony in the fact that the camera that I own (I mean the specific camera, not the make and model) was used as the ergonomic model for one of those projects Luckily, the people who are interested in the Red/Scarlet are not the same people who would be interested in the kind of camera that I have, but I have no doubt that the gap is going to narrow soon enough.

[Gordon Moat]

From the point of view of still photography, the question is what impact the transition of the motion picture industry to digital will have on availability of film, particularly colour film. I don't purport to know the answer to this question, but if film industry demand for film continues to drop, one has got to wonder how much longer Kodak and Fuji will produce the stuff.

There is currently more film used for distribution than for origination. The high cost of digital projection gear is one issue, and operator colour control is another. There is also an issue of future proofing content, in that HD resolutions will continue to rise into the future, and that film can still be rescanned and upsized (obviously I am shortening this explanation, because I don't want to write a book of details). Anyway, with close to $2Billion in film sales overall (still and motion), it might be a much smaller market, but it is still far from no market.

Beyond that several video cameras have trouble with panning and motion shots due to their electronic shutters and CMOS (less issue with CCD video cameras). ARRI might have a solution to that with a different shutter idea, though I have yet to see an in-depth report testing the D21 series. Anyway, it is an issue that does not affect a great majority of shoots, only certain shoots.

I have a few friends using RED gear now. Once they figure out working around a few issues, they are great system cameras. Obviously, few will say anything negative about them, so it seems like RED are the best thing since holes in Swiss cheese.


Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography