Getting rid of negative FS posts from non-involved users...

[rdenney]

Word of mouth? You mean as in hearing it from a neighbor or other social group that an auto mechanic is overcharging? In a service sort of way, isn't Angie's List such a social group? Isn't this forum considerably more connected than Angie's List?

Heck, an auto mechanic can charge a couple hundred bucks for a standard oil change if he wishes. But that doesn't make it right when your wife (if she knows no better) hands you that bill. You're going to be very pissed off not only that the mechanic overcharged but that he took advantage of her vulnerability, aren't you?

What you are missing is that the folks who post on Angie's List are not interfering with specific transactions or offers for sale. They are reporting about their own experiences and offering that as general experience with the seller. They are not standing in front of the mechanic's shop telling everyone who drives in that the mechanic's hourly rates are higher than the shop down the road. If you can't see that difference, I doubt you'll ever understand why such behavior seems rude to people like me.

And I insist that my wife and my sister are utterly un-equivalent to a bunch of fellow photographers on the Internet. I have a responsibility for such mechanical issues with my wife, just as she has a responsibility for other aspects of how we run our household. We watch out for each other, but then we also share bank accounts. But even when we find the price unacceptable, we separate ourselves from the seller (and assuredly from any other customers), and talk it over just between us. Then we decide what we will do and go from there. When I'm about to make a fool of myself in public, my wife knows to steer me to a private corner and warn me off before I do so. We share that mutual responsibility.

But I don't butt in if someone else's wife is not getting that advice from her husband, or vice versa. The reason is that I have no responsibility there, and exercising that responsibility is overstepping my authority and position.

In my music groups, we have lots of school band directors. Many of them have what some of us call "Band Director Syndrome", which is the built-in need to identify and solve every problem in sight. That is appropriate in their school band rooms, where they are responsible for their students. But it is inappropriate in the company of their adult peers, who are often offended when someone tries to butt into their affairs. It is common enough and annoying enough that we have a name for it. I've actually had band directors try to explain business contracting to me, and I'm a corporate executive who has written and lived with hundreds of contracts. I just smile.

On the other hand, I have developed a decent reputation for knowing the market for tubas, and often get asked advice on what is a good price for or a fair value for this or that tuba. When asked, I provide what I know freely.

Rick "not your babysitter however much I like that waterfall picture you posted in the Water's Edge thread" Denney

[Mike1234]

Okay, Rick. I respect your opinion.

EDIT: LOL!! I just saw your reference to my photo. You're overly generous with your compliment but I do thank you.

BTW, I always get a kick out of your modified sigs.

[Brian Ellis]

AMEN Bro. Don't need any more do-gooders trying to help me, thanks very much.

My do-gooder tale. This guy has a bunch of ecclectic antique portrait and soft focus lenses from a collection so I buy one and shoot him a querry. "Got any Pinkham and Smith lenses?" He says "Yeah, but it's incomplete. It only has a rear element." Now I have knowledge, he has none. It's only SPOSED to have a rear element. I could have bought it for $700 bucks because he thinks it's broke. Here's the question for you do-gooders?

Do I tell him it's complete? Or do I PayPal him $700 bucks as fast as I can?

So I'm an idiot do-gooder and eventually purchase the lens for $2200. After that I decided it's NOT MY JOB to educate everybody about what they've got if they're too lazy and stupid to find out. My stupidity cost me $1500 and I'm just a guy making wages. $1500 is a ton of money for me.

I think you're missing the point, or at least what the point was when this thread started. Nobody has suggested that you or anyone else has an obligation to inform prospective buyers that a seller is trying to gouge them (or to inform sellers that they don't know what they're doing). That's totally up to you or anyone else. The point of those whose tender sensibilities are offended by comments in FS ads is (or was dozen or so pages back) that such comments should be made in a separate thread from the FS ad itself.

But then I haven't read all the intervening posts so maybe now these people are saying nobody should be allowed to make any comments anywhere about FS items. If that's the case then it's just another example of people trying to tell other people what they should and shouldn't be allowed to say, a very popular sport these days.

[Mike1234]

Brian... yes, your assumption is correct.

Those on one side of the fence proclaim it's rude and inappropriate to post one's opinion in another's FS thread no matter what your intention is nor how kindly to state said opinion. Those individuals say it should be "caveat emptor" and anyone stupid enought to overpay gets what they deserve.

Those on the other side of the fence say it's our right to say something if the price is WAY off. These people contend that this is an open forum and we should look out for each other and uninformed noobs. I'm one on this side of the fence.

[Marko]

And then there's those of us who are unclear on just who is supposed or has the higher authority to decide which prices are WAY off and which are not...

We tend to think a seller should be entitled to decide just for how much (or little) they are willing to part with their "clunker" and that it would be quite patronizing to assume that the buyers, that is "us", are unable or unqualified to reach our own decision.



Middle ground, as somebody aptly named it, is just that - the big, flat ground between the two extremes.

[Brian_A]

No, I'd say one side says it's rude that if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all in someone else's FS thread. If they can't dedicate ten minutes of their time to do some very simple searches to see if this is the going rate, then oh well - their loss. (I'm on this side of the fence..)

Then there's the price police side who think that if it's $50 over priced - in their opinion - they should make it seem like the seller is trying to rip another off. Their tender sensibilities get all worked up because someone is selling something for near what they paid for it and the buyer won't get a killer deal.

[rdenney]

Bad:

Seller: I'm offering a Frankenheimer Splatoplatz 385mm f/9.7 in a Synchrosludge #4 for $900.

Buyer (via PM): I'm interested but only at $750.

Price Cop (out in public): Dude, those sell for about $500 on ebay. You might wanna reconsider your price.

Seller: Does that mean you'll pay $500 for it? Is that an offer?

Price Cop: No, I'm not in the market, I'm just sayin...

Buyer (via PM): Nevermind--I guess this is overpriced. (Buyer goes away without Splatoplatz, wondering if he snookered himself.)

Seller: (Quietly slits his wrists)

Better:

Seller: I'm offering a F. Splatoplatz 385/9.7 in a Ssdge #4 for $900.

Price Cop, in a separate thread: Does anybody have any idea what a Splatoplatz goes for? I see one for sale that seems high.

Price Cop Enabler, in other thread: Depends on the condition. I've seen them go for anywhere from $500 for a crappy one on ebay to $900, but they are rare.

Buyer (in original thread, after reading Price Cop's thread): Would you sell it for $650?

Seller: No, price is firm.

Buyer: (thinking: I would have paid $750, but I say...) But I read Price Cop's thread where it isn't worth that much!

Seller and Buyer: (grumbling and nobody happy)

Best:

Seller: I'm offering a F. Spltpltz 385/9.7 for $900

Buyers: (no response)

Seller: Okay, I'm bumping this with price reduced. How about $825?

Buyers: (crickets chirping)

Seller: Okay, here's another price reduction to $750. Last chance before ebay.

Buyer: PM Sent.

Price Cop (to himself): Wow, I guess these were worth more than I thought, or (and this is okay, too) Wow, that guy got suckered.

Worst case is the buyer paid maybe $100 too much, but he got what he wanted. Everybody's happy, even though the seller had to reduce his price. It was his choice to reduce the price in order to make the sale, not because of some do-gooder upsetting potential buyers.

In Price Cop's world, there are poor souls reading the For Sale forum just ready to be ensnared by someone (gasp!) wanting $900 for a Frankenheimer Splatoplatz. The price cop assumed there were buyers unwilling to Google it and find that the going rate for one in the pictured condition was about $600-800. So, on the off-chance that there might be a sucker out there needing to be saved, he sets up potential situations affecting the happiness of buyer and seller for all potential buyers. Someone will end up thinking they got snookered, and because of the comments of someone with no stake in the transaction.

And that's supposed to be the charitable thing for the "community".

Rick "who always wanted a Splatoplatz" Denney

[theBDT]

I see nothing wrong with the "better" scenario.

[Mike1234]

Well, I expect to see a lot of posting in my FS threads after all this. If it's constructive and truthful then it's all very welcome.

[Marko]

LOL, Rick, I like the third scenario.

But what happens when there are no crickets around?