"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White
only slightly...
“Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche“ - Gustav Mahler
What makes it interesting? I didin't read it all cause it seemed to make its point after about first two paragraphs
I skimmed through sections throughout and nothing changed ..still hammering
Seems more the opposite of interesting
I swear people only read these people to copy from for some later point in life when they have a play for power and need to sound smart
To me this guy thinks like your average smart high schooler with an education
If I was as polished a writer as he I could have a job at city journal
"needy creatures" dude has no imagination that's so gay
I'm sure he copied that gem off one of my never to be finished 5th grade homework assignments. I couldn't live with my fake self if I published a work with "we are needy creatures" anywhere in it.
Bunch of trendy words
I think what is interesting is the "fact" that he believes we believe he truly cares about anything other than selling himself and his art
Why does he only want to roll back the clock a hundred years or two? Seems he wants to roll it back to a period where he would be a dominate player but not so far back as to be locked out or put in harms way
"We can wander through this world, alienated, resentful, full of suspicion and distrust. Or we can find our home here, coming to rest in harmony with others and with ourselves. The experience of beauty guides us along this second path: it tells us that we are at home in the world, that the world is already ordered in our perceptions as a place fit for the lives of beings like us."
deluded drunk
"beings like us"
middle school
Probably why I don't write. If this is already seen as superior craftsmanship it's too easy to be worth anything
I like beauty and rap music
John,
Roger Scuton's article in the history of ideas (it is not an article in the philosophy of art) is problematic. It suggests that the solution to the "desecration" of beauty (as he defines [?] it) lies in the reform of contemporary "loveless" culture. There are many fine artists and writers who see demanding contemporary art as an affirmation, not a desecration, and who see what Scuton wants to affirm as schlock. In any case, trying to cram over 200 years of aesthetics in a magazine article seems foolish on the face of it.
You will find far more cogent writing on the subject of artistic beauty in the work of Hans Georg Gadamer. Gadamer finds no reason to reject twentieth-century culture in order to experience art in a meaningful way. I also recommend Theodor Adorno's Aesthetic Theory (Univ of Minnesota editon) to any serious reader of aesthetics, along with Maurice Merleau-Ponty's essay Cezanne's Doubt and his other essays in aesthetics. ( Adorno's book is a challenge; Merleau-Ponty's essay is much more accessible and is available, I think, on the Internet.)
Posting this sort of interest on this forum is always a risk. Cartier-Bresson wrote that the only thing that photographers have in common is that all they use cameras (I am paraphrasing here). When it comes to a nuanced meaningful discussion on artistic matters, face-to-face conversation is what is needed.
Last edited by Michael Alpert; 8-Jul-2009 at 09:26.
What discussion?
This was like putting on a condom as wife enters the room
She knows his story immediately same as we know Johns here
No discussion
Just ...this is me this is what I think this is what I know this is how it is this is truth I am beautiful ..are you?
What is philosophy of art
Does anyone think the first dude who drew an animal on a wall was making some profound statement on beauty never expressed before Was he sitting there grunting to himself I have made art I am artist I am owner of all that is right in this world
He liked/respected/loved that fukn animal
So did everyone else
He drew it
why? because he didn't have cartoons to watch. Entertainment. He realized one day it was possible after seeing a cloud that looked like a rabbit
How can you have a deeply meaningful discussion on art? Nuanced is job security/creation. A ranking. Self-promotion. Money. Greed. Power.
Cogent is artform itself
What is it that defines a serious interest in aesthetics
Job creation Money Greed Power
Pointless
The very thing this guy decries
Disrespect of that which is or should be or whatever "sacred"
This "thing" ruined is not art or beauty but brotherliness
love
This talk just separates people into classes
Face to face conversations -friendliness- doesn't move towards debate and competition
so any face to face conversation strictly on art is just this same crap played out in seemingly less hostile places most likely with people you've decided to be around
surrounding yourself
with people like yourself
knowing any conversation you'll enter
will be with yourself
It's either that or a war .."risk"
http://www.wright.edu/cola/Dept/PHL/...sth/cdoubt.pdf
I'll try to read it some other time. What is it ..one mans take on why and how he painted that made him great?
If that's what it is I won't be interested and only skim it
Why is it smart people almost always point to other smart people to tell their story
Always.
Writers write
It's their art
Ballplayers play ball
That's their art
Ask a writer to explain the ballplayer and you'll get a joke
If the writer knew what he was talking about he'd be the one written about
You don't need the near perfection of language to understand what is understood perfectly without
I find it very interesting and a new point of view, in this matter.
But shorter would be better, for me as not perfect english speaker!
Cheers Armin
sun of sand,Originally Posted by sun of sand
Thank you for the link to the Cezanne essay. I don't think I understand everything in your post; but I suppose that's my loss, not yours.
I made it 3/4 through that cezannes doubt just now and it just doesn't keep my attention
I simply cannot read this as though it's anything but this dudes imaginings of Cezanne
Whether half correct or none of it
If it's missing ANY it's a total work of fiction
Don't accept it. It's a work of art itself.
What would this guy say about the way I play basketball? Is there a philosophy of basketball
Maybe I jump the way I do because I want to express my wonderances on birds of flight
Is this theory anything but art? Even if it's true what does it matter?
There has to be 1000 Cezannes
There has to be the same amount of Picassos
10X that amount of critics looking for a paycheck
I just don't get it
What is the point?
To me it's like writing about why people like to sit down in the grass on a sunny afternoon
Writing about why kids sit in the grass more frequently than adults is the more interesting work and probably has some real value
The other is just a job. A Billy Mays product we're led to believe is needed
You cannot even tell me what art is and isn't yet I'm supposed to believe this art is best ..or whatever ..because you tell me it is ...and that's truth because there are numerous others saying the same thing
People know art but have no idea why people kill one another
Just the elites dominating art is all that is
You gotta create the group before you can belong to it
You have to follow the groups rules or you will not get in yourself
You can create your own group by doing your own thing but then of course you're still not in any legitimate group in the eyes of the world belonging to the establishment
You're just a fruitcake till someone decides -they've- been left out for too long and picks you up to sell -themselves
People emphatically say poop isn't beautiful
Constipate yourself for a couple weeks and say that without smiling
Shit is beautiful
What ISNT beautiful is the harder question
The (#49**SuNseT**)$_539) is no more beautiful than my fingernail
just creation
And I doubt you're the least bit distressed over not understanding me
You couldn't be to just let it go with one sentence
No questions
Nothing
just
my bad
Maybe the loss is equal
You've lost a person in the world and so have I
Huh??
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White
Yes, I agree. I think I understand what you're saying. But your perspective seems too lonely to me. Too impatient with other perspectives. The reason we communicate through photography, or on this forum for that matter, seems the opposite of the disconnect that I find in your statements. I feel a sense of fruitlessness in this kind of discussion between strangers. So the loss is equal. I'm afraid that all I see is the continuation of talking past each other, and I don't want to do that.
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