14" Schneider f/8 MC Gold Dot Dagor

[Blumine]

Either I was very lucky or immensely stupid, but I managed to find, I believe, the last model of Kern Schneider 14 inch f/8 MC Gold Dot Dagor in a black Compur 3. I haven’t received the lens yet, but it should be here sometime early next week. I think the price I paid was reasonable .

I did a search of the archives and read some impressions of the lens but was curious to if there were any more or if anyone had any examples taken with this mythical beast. I suppose if I don’t like it I can always sell it for what I paid for it. It would be gracious of you if anyone had any more info.

Blumine

[wfwhitaker]

At one time I had the third version of this lens. I made some comparison photos on 8x10 chrome film. They're ganged together here as a collage. Can you find the one from the Kern Dagor? http://wfwhitaker.com/tech/collage.jpg

[Blumine]

Let me guess........ The top left picture? Seems to have that contrasty dagor look.

Thank you.

Blumine

[Toyon]

Is this lens related to the legendary Trigor?

[wfwhitaker]

From upper left, clockwise:

14" Kern Dagor
375mm Caltar
16 1/2" RD Artar
14" Commercial Ektar

Yes, the Dagor is more contrasty. But it's not entirely a fair comparison because there are some exposure differences due to older shutters on the other lenses. The images were shot on 8x10 chrome film; the scans were made directly from the film and are unmanipulated. Nevertheless, the differences are more apparent in the original chromes than in the scans. The Kern presented the out-of-focus areas in the background too harshly for my taste. All things considered, the Commercial Ektar or the Caltar suited my way of seeing better. And the investment in the Kern was too much too ignore. Having said that, however, the Kern is a gorgeous lens and for some subjects/styles can't be beat.

[Drew Wiley]

I had a couple of these. The quality of color hue transmission was the best of any
lens I have ever owned, and micro-contrast on b&w film was superb. However, the
level of contrast was just too high for color tranny film outdoors (might be OK with something like Astia). And I absolutely hated the Compur 3 shutter, which had
a distinct buzz vibration to it and no T setting. Finally replaced it with the
single-coated version of the Kern in a Copal shutter. The latest MC is tack sharp
about 2/3 stop down from wide open, so behaves a tiny bit better in this respect
from the single-coat lens, which needs at least a full stop. If I had kept the MC
lenses I think I would have had them remounted in Copal shutters, but that means
even more $. Coverage is so-so on 8x10 - good enough for many applications but
not for strong rise or tilt. Wonderful portrait lens if subject has smooth skin.

[Martin Courtenay-Blake]

I don't know what Kern did to their lenses but they seemed to produce lenses capable of extraordinary performance. In days gone by I owned an Alpa 35mm camera with a 50mm f1.8 Macro Switar which produced truly outstanding images. A photo mag tested the lens and found it out resolved everything then available including M and R series Leitz, Zeiss for the Contax RTS as well as Nikon and Canon lenses. Contrast was extremely high (was sometimes a problem), colour fidelity spot on and transparancies exhibited an almost 3D effect yet incredibly smooth, almost plastic tonality. It was very special...wish I still had. I really regret I didn't shoot mono in those days.

Now where can I get one of these Kern MC Dagor thingies for my 5X4 or 5X7?

Martin

[Blumine]

Great responses, thank you very much. I guess I will play with it for a while, if I like it keep it or get rid it.

I certainly wont lose anything on it.

Blumine

[Kirk Fry]

The 14 inch Commercial Ektar looks pretty good and has more coverage than the Dagor.
I wonder how a 355 G-Claron or Modern Plasmat would look?

KFry

[Drew Wiley]

The G-Claron has signficantly more coverage than the Kern Dagor, is better corrected at significant tilts and especially at close range, which it was specfically
marketed for. The Dagor would have higher contrast due to only four air-glass
interfaces, plus the superb multi-coating. Both are mid-weight lenses, relatively
portable, with #3 shutters. My favorite alternative is the 360 Fuji A which has the
advantage of a #1 shutter, so sharper under certain circumstances due to less
shutter vibration. Similar optical design to G-Claron but a bit less coverage due to
mechanical vignetting of the smaller shutter. The Fuji has a bit more contrast than
the G-Claron, but similar color. The Kern has a tiny bit warmer color rendering;
and the presence of a multi-bladed shutter means better bokeh at wide apertures.
The Fuji A is my preferred lens for landscape and close-up use. It's dramatically
better on 4x5 due to the least vibration, but I use it routinely on 8x10 too. I prefer
the Kern for portrait use of shooting for selective focus. The difference between
single-coat and multi-coat versions I noted above. All these are wonderful lenses,
plus you now have Schneider introducing a lightweight artar design in this general focal length too.