Outgassing: How long to wait before framing ?

[ljsegil]

But good luck getting an Epson 3800 to swallow canvas whole. No joy as yet, personally.
LJ

[Jim Galli]

I've told my wife as long as I'm still outgassing to not put me in the frame. Seems to be working for me.

[Bruce Watson]

Hoping for a new solution here, because unfortunately the commonly dispensed advice does not work in all environs.

Even when I let an Epson R1800 print air dry in single digit humidities for several weeks and then dry mount with tissue (i.e. baking it for a long time in the press), if it is then displayed in a gallery with high humidity, it seems to draw moisture back into the paper. As soon as the sun hits it, it outgasses and the greasy film appears on the glass.

I'm using an R1800 with Epson inks (color), Premium Glossy Photo paper, with Gloss Optimizer.

Anyone tried packaging a silica dessicant in the frame?

I'll try again. Outgassing from inkjet prints is not about water. Relative humidity or the lack thereof doesn't effect the outgassing problem posed by the OP. The water in the ink carrier leaves prints readily and rapidly. It's the remaining constituents of the ink carrier -- glycols and glycerins -- that stay behind and cause the problems. These chemicals are not very volatile; it takes both heat and air movement to rid a print of them. The consequences of not removing the glycols, glycerins, etc. followed by framing under glazing is just what the OP describes. Lighting the framed print heats it up (dark areas faster and more than light areas of course), the glycols and glycerins evaporate, but they can't dissipate in the closed environment of the frame. So they precipitate out on the nearest cold surface -- the glazing. The warmer parts of the print outgas more, which is what causes the "ghost image" that's often seen on the glazing.

You can verify that the ghost image isn't just water based. Disassemble the frame, flip the glazing so the ghost image is toward you, lean in and sniff it. The antifreeze-like smell is the ethylene glycol.

A bone dry print can outgas in a frame. It's not about water, so desiccants of various kinds designed to absorb water won't have any effect on the problem. It's about what's left behind after the water is long gone.

[Peter De Smidt]

I appreciate all of the info here. (Thanks for the tip on the hair dryer, Bruce.)

On a related note, Paul Roark, http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Arches.pdf, has been experimenting using Arches uncoated water color paper. Apparently, he can actually wash the print to get rid of the contaminants. The d-max with his ink sets is a little less than coated rag papers, at 1.61, but it's still an interesting approach.

[lindsey21]

I'm a darkroom printmaker rather than a digital one, but might have some analogous ideas. Glass per se is a poor insulator so tends to attract condensation on
the inside surface more than acrylic glazing. In many cases it also helps to have a
good insulating board like fomeboard behind the print. Commercial settings and some galleries tend to use excessively hot lighting during the day, but then things
cool down significantly at night, making surfaces especially susceptible to condensation. I also live on the CA coast. In fact it's foggy and windy right now. Dessicant strips for placing along the rabbets of metal frames used to be available from Light Impressions. But they won't be good in the long term unless the entire frame assembly is hermetically sealed. This is something I've often done but it's tricky and expensive. I haven't researched the patents for inkjet components much except for pigment/dye content. If glycol is present it is something which really doesn't want to dry out. The question is, just how much is there. In water-based architectural pigments for house paint and so forth, glycol is a major component to keep the pigments moist until dispensing. So here seems to be one more thing that isn't sufficiently discussed in digital workflow. You might contact my friend Joseph Holmes at his website (under his name); he's Epson's main large format consultant and quite knowledeable technically. He lives in the fog zone too.

I just have to say, this info. is sooooo helpful.

[Samuel Burns Landsacape P]

Thanks for the tips Bruce, shall give the hairdryer a run on a small print and see how it goes.

Cheers
Sam.

[GPS]

I'm a darkroom printmaker rather than a digital one, but might have some analogous ideas. Glass per se is a poor insulator so tends to attract condensation on
the inside surface more than acrylic glazing.
...

Well, it's exactly the opposite. Glass per se is a good thermal insulator...