To hell with paypal

[Marko]

Hey, I'm not from NYC!

[rguinter]

Yes it's fairly recent. AFAIK it only applies to items/sellers that eBay considers high risk, so you may or may not get a payment held.

I just put on all my auctions that I will not send goods until the payment has been cleared and released, and that the buyer may have to provide additional information to expedite that. So, if it happens, and they want the goods released, they'll just have to submit positive feedback before I ship.

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Patrick: How on Earth can someone leave you feedback before you've shipped their item? Realistically, feedback can only occur once the transaction is complete.

But regarding paypal I fully agree with this thread. To Hell with it. I have never used it and never will. And I recommend no-one else use it. It should be driven out of business by lack of use. Those who are currently using it should cease and close out the credit accounts they used to join. With identity theft increasing every day worldwide who wants unknown employees at some second-rate company like paypal having access to all one's personal financial data. For most internet auction transactions there is nothing safer than a couple of $twenties sent in the mail. More than that then get a money order. The only risk of loss is that specific transaction amount. And for those that use paypal, every one of you has paid more in fees than I have lost in approximately 1000 internet auction transactions with cash and money orders. My total loss to-date = $0.00.

[rguinter]

These "trivial" fees are actually devised that way. They are small enough that almost everyone will ignore them, or consider them to be the cost of doing business. But the total sum of such fees is certainly not trivial.

Kumar

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Kumar: Absolutely!!! And the reason all should get angry enough to close their paypal accounts and go back to cash and carry.

[Donald Miller]

Then again, you are talking about the cradle of the Cosa Nostra and the Camorra...

True, but primarily and heavily around Napoli (Camorra) and Sicily(Mafia). Elsewhere they don't give you too much trouble unless you step on toes. Mafiosa don't run "rip off businesses" for the most part. They want to make money without attracting attention. They try to control segments of the economy. In Milano, for instance, they have solid control of the funeral business...ie undertakers, caskets or cremations, services, funeral carriages and limos, florists and photographers, etc. I was made to leave the public cemetary in Milano because I was intruding into their space.

No matter where one lives today there is organized crime, whether that is the drug organizations of Mexico, latin and south America or the Russian Mafia as notable examples among many others.

[walter23]

And lastly, they provide a service, I am unclear why they shouldn't charge for it..

You can think of electronic payment as an emerging new currency; electrons and data travelling through wires and modifying values in databases, instead of printed pieces of paper. In light of that, having it so heavily feed is really nothing short of usury.

You'd go absolutely ballistic if banks and the payroll departments of your company started charging you 3% every time you moved cash in and out, and holding your money for 21 days (well, the bastards already hold cheques for 7 to 10 days). Hell, the banks are also making a killing from $1 and $2 service fees for withdrawls, a horrible practice that any reasonably civilized society would outlaw.

[Jim Cole]

Please forgive my overly candid reponse but...

Big Brother is in bed with Big Business.

We let them use us. Why? Because it's easier or more convenient or "safer". BS... we Americans believe all the hype/propaganda that's thrown at us. We should be embarrassed.

What hype? I agree that our gov't has overstepped its bounds on more than one occasion, but I don't know what that has to do with PayPal...owned by eBay which is a public company. All I know is that eBay provides me with a simple way to access millions of shoppers and I get a fair market value for my goods...for a fee. PayPal allows me to collect or pay funds in a normally quick and painless manner...for a fee which I have agreed to.

The only time PayPal held my payment in reserve was when I sold a Nakamichi tape deck which was considered "high risk". The buyer received his deck, provided me with positive feedback and my funds were released in about 10 days. Not really much longer than waiting for a money order.

Use it or don't use it, it's everyone's perogative, but I don't understand all the bashing. There are plenty of ways to sell something and receive payment. Do whatever is comfortable for you. It has worked for me on about 100 sales/purchases over the last 8 years. Every financial system in the world will screw up once in a while, but overall PayPal is a great system.

[Paul Kierstead]

You'd go absolutely ballistic if banks and the payroll departments of your company started charging you 3% every time you moved cash in and out, and holding your money for 21 days (well, the bastards already hold cheques for 7 to 10 days).

Um, no, I would switch banks (and employers). I've switched banks for a *lot* less fees then that. Why go ballistic? It isn't constructive. I do consider it worthwhile to let the company know why you are switching, though.

As well, you message is a bit disingenuous; that 3% covers Visa transaction fees (often more then 3% via other methods) and is their fault as much as PayPals, and the 21 days is not normal practice.

Look, I'm not really defending Paypal here, I'm just saying people should put their money where their mouth is. The simple fact is that most don't because the benefit of using eBay/Paypal outweighs the cost, which tells us really that the system (in the big sense) is working as designed. When the fees begin to outweigh the advantages, then viable competitors will rise.

For those who honestly have seriously quit using eBay/Paypal and put their money elsewhere, well they needn't be all wound up about it; the act of shifting money has already accomplished so much more.

[nathanm]

It's true, love it or hate it PayPal is entirely voluntary. If more of us "went ballistic" over the infinitely more onerous and pervasive extortions of our wealth we would be living in a much more pleasant world.