Rollholders on 6 x 9 technical and field cameras

[Oren Grad]

I had the Horseman reflex finder for a while. I don't think it solves Brian's problem - you're still left with a piece of hardware you have to remove and juggle while you attach the film holder and make an exposure, it's just a different piece of hardware. If anything, the reflex finder is a bit less convenient at the point of exposure because it's held in place by the Graflok sliders and is slower both to attach and remove than the GG back with its dedicated retaining hooks.

PS: Because the reflex finder is attached using the Graflok clips, you can't use a slide-in like the Rapid Rollex or the Adapt-a-Roll with it, whereas you can use those with the standard GG back.

[Brian Wallen]

As a followup to Oren's original mention of the Linhof Rapid Rollex, I just note the current price on the B&H site--$1509.95. That is about 75% of the last retail price I saw for the Horseman VH and about 300% of what I paid for the used VH. I haven't seen a picture of the current Rapid Rollex, but the old ones I've seen have controls neatly tucked on the top deck, probably requiring removal of the RH to advance the film. The attraction of the Toyo was that the controls were located closer to the end. I thought they might work like the old 4 x 5 mount Calumet rollholders which slipped in under a Graflok or even spring focusing frame, but could be controlled from the pod that stuck out away from the focusing frame. I've never seen these in the 6x9 mount size.

Dan, I will check out the Adapt-A-Roll. I collect old Kodaks and regularly use a Medalist, so the 620 swap is a minor inconvenience, and one I do regularly anyway and maintain an assortment of emulsions rerolled on 620 spools. BTW, how is film flatness with the Adapt-A-Roll?

amoebahyda, is the Sinar you picture for a 4 x 5 or 6 x 9 mount. Since it has a setting for 6 x 12, I suspect it is for the former.

In general, design standards for film loading and composition have gotten at least some of us away from straight GG composition. I'm not trying to start an argument here with people who work under a dark cloth with an 8x loupe. It just doesn't work well for me. I like reflex finders, and I do appreciate my Wista VX with the compact folding finder that conveniently swings out of the way so I can use a loupe for critical focusing.

I also like the compactness of the VH: the convenience of the Rotary Back and Reflex Viewer bring it tantalizingly close for 120 work to MF SLRs, with movements. Unfortunately all of that convenience vanishes when you find that you can't use anything shorter than a normal length lens.

Complaining about the small lensboard on the Horsemans, has the flavor of wanting to run with the fox and hunt with the hounds. But the combination of short-focusing problems and the practical impossibility of using a recessed board does cause a lot of existential angst among Horseman owners. The first Horseman folders were made in the mid-60s when there were 58mm Grandagons and 47mm SAs, both in #00 shutters. Perhaps we can't hold the Horseman designers of that period responsible for a failure to anticipate what would happen to short-focus lens design in the next forty years, but just a little more foresight in this area of lens mounting could have made the difference between what is currently a limited use camera and an outstanding working classic.

I applaud those designers for adopting an open standard for attaching back accessories. Horseman accessories can often be used on any international G back. However the extension problems this design causes for short-focus lenses is a serious drawback. Compare the Horseman Rotary Back for the 4 x 5 mount that adds 45mm of extension to the sliding back that Wista attaches to its back rotation mechanism which adds only 7mm of extension. Interestingly when Horseman redesigned the VH as the Digital VH, it used a back-swapping strategy similar to Wista's to mount both a Rollei digital back plate and a conventional VH focusing frame.

[Bob Salomon]

As a followup to Oren's original mention of the Linhof Rapid Rollex, I just note the current price on the B&H site--$1509.95. That is about 75% of the last retail price I saw for the Horseman VH and about 300% of what I paid for the used VH. I haven't seen a picture of the current Rapid Rollex, but the old ones I've seen have controls neatly tucked on the top deck, probably requiring removal of the RH to advance the film. The attraction of the Toyo was that the controls were located closer to the end. I thought they might work like the old 4 x 5 mount Calumet rollholders which slipped in under a Graflok or even spring focusing frame, but could be controlled from the pod that stuck out away from the focusing frame. I've never seen these in the 6x9 mount size.

There is no need to remove the Rapid Rollex to advance the film or check the frame counter. They are fully controlled while under the ground glass. The only thing that you can't do while the RR is under the ground glass is load the back with film or remove the film after you are finished shooting.

[Dan Fromm]

Um, Brian, I also have Graflex RHs, late ones with pin rollers on the casing. I think that my AAR 620s give better film flatness than they do but haven't tested seriously.

Cheers,

Dan

[Oren Grad]

As a followup to Oren's original mention of the Linhof Rapid Rollex, I just note the current price on the B&H site--$1509.95.

They do turn up used now and then. As I recall, I paid something like $400 for mine. Still not bargain-basement for a rollholder, but much easier to swallow if you really need a slide-in for your working style.

As for advancing the film, I have my VH-R and RR in hand now. The way the holder inserts leaves the wind knob and exposure counter easily accessible.

The Sinar rollholders are strictly for 4x5. They're humongous.

[Oren Grad]

Brian, a further point, since you like the rotary back - the Toyo and Wista Graflok-type 2x3/6x9 and 6x7 backs were marketed primarily for use with sliding backs offered by those manufacturers for some of their 4x5 cameras. To my knowledge, Wista never offered a 2x3 camera, and the Toyo 23G monorail is long discontinued.

[Bob Salomon]

Brian, a further point, since you like the rotary back - the Toyo and Wista Graflok-type 2x3/6x9 and 6x7 backs were marketed primarily for use with sliding backs offered by those manufacturers for some of their 4x5 cameras. To my knowledge, Wista never offered a 2x3 camera, and the Toyo 23G monorail is long discontinued.

But Wista does offer a roll back that fits their 23 Quickslide shift back.

[Oren Grad]

But Wista does offer a roll back that fits their 23 Quickslide shift back.

Yes. Sorry if what I said was confusing on that point.

[Jeff Keller]

Maybe I haven't learned to efficiently release the retaining hooks. I find the the Graflok sliders much easier. Each slider can be released with one hand. I need both hands and something to hold the camera to release the hooks. Can someone describe a good way to release the retaining hooks?

Jeff Keller

If anything, the reflex finder is a bit less convenient at the point of exposure because it's held in place by the Graflok sliders and is slower both to attach and remove than the GG back with its dedicated retaining hooks.

[Brian Wallen]

Dan, thanks for the tip on the Adapt-A-Roll. I just picked one up on eBay and it looks like it will be a good solution for convenient GG composition with rollfilm with my Horseman VH when I am using short focus lenses.

I even found an AAR with an instruction sheet. I understand everything except the limitation stated in the instructions that I can take 8 6x9 exposures with B&W, but only 6 with color. I don't remember any time in the last 50 years that color 620/120 rolls had shorter film strips than B&W.

What's your experience?