A good ol' "What happened here?" thread.

[TtamNedlog]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3434895...51468/sizes/o/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3434895...36133/sizes/o/


I'm new to 4x5 (and this forum!) and work in a gang dark room at school. I used what I've now read is the "antichrist," the Yankee tank. I developed 10 negatives one day and they came out fine. Then I developed 10 more some other day, and they came out with that "residue" on them.

That's not mottling is it? I've been searching around these forums for info, and see a lot of mention of mottling when using Yankee tanks. It sounds like mottling is just splotches of uneven development as far as I can understand. This looks like something was wrong with the chemicals I used and they left some sort of alligator skin on my negatives. I've tried re-fixing, soaking in hot water, using anti-stat negative cleaner... All with no results. Here are the details:

- HP5+
- D76 1:1 for 11 minutes, side to side agitation for the first 30 seconds and 10 every 30
- Water rinse for 30 seconds
- Fix for 15 minutes (seems needlessly long, but that's what we were told to do), agitation 10 every 30
- Water rinse for 2 minutes
- Permawash for 2 minutes, continuous agitation
- Water rinse for 5 minutes
- Photo-flo for 1 minute, no agitation

Any idea what caused this, and how I can avoid it in the future? I'm betting something was up with the photo-flo... Unless this is just Yankee-itis. I can't imagine the tank caused this.

[walter23]

Don't fix for 15 minutes. With rapid fixer you can fix for 2.5 minutes or so (I usually go 4 or 5). I don't know if that would leave a residue like that, but it's way too long in any event and overfixing is a bad idea from an archival standpoint, from what I understand.

Forget the permawash (whatever that is) and photo-flo. I don't use them and you don't really need them. Just wash for 10 minutes, in whatever you did your development in, under constant flowing water. If it's a big tank (ie your yankee tank), fill it and empty it a few times to make sure you get rid of residual chemistry before letting the water flow for a bit.

I use a drop or two of wetting agent (edwal's LFN) in the final rinse to keep the water from leaving residue. This was started when I lived in a hard water area with lots of calcium but I still use it here (where the water is softer) as it seems to result in nice even drying and clean negatives.

Also, if you're sharing chemistry in a school darkroom, contamination could be an issue. There are a lot of idiots out there. Maybe use your own chemicals if you keep having problems like this.

[willwilson]

wow. I have no idea what is wrong with your negatives. I can't imagine something being in an empty tank that would do that. I assume you rinsed it out beforehand correct?

Is it some sort of build up? Does it have texture?

This is what I do with my film (typically Delta 100, HP5):
Develope 7:30 to 15m (Xtol 1:1 or 1:2)
Ilford Hypam 4-5m
Rinse 1m
Hypo Clear 2m
Rinse 10m
photo-flo 30s (you can agitate if you want just don't make any bubbles)
Dry

[Terence McDonagh]

Photo-flo is a wetting agent.

I'd kill the perma wash. Make the stop bath 60 seconds. And cut the fix by at least 1/2, if not by 10 minutes.

[John T]

First,

This looks like it might be reticulation. Did you go from a hot liquid to a cold one? If so that might be the problem. Reticulation occurs when the emulsion softens and expands a lot due to high temperatures, then when the film goes into a cold liquid, it shrinks quickly and unevenly and then hardens. Once this happens you can't fix it. Mottling is just variation of tones. This is usually easily seen in areas of solid tone (sky, sidewalks, etc)

Second, disregard what Walter and the others said. Although they meant well, it sounds like you are using the school's chemicals, so changing to a rapid fix is not an option. Many times in a school gang darkroom situation it is impossible to keep precise records of how fresh the fixer is and by doing it for so long it makes sure that you don't underfix the film-a far worse situation than slightly overfixing them.

Also, the Permawash (I know what it is and it is a good thing) is important to save water (and more importantly in a gang darkroom, shortens the wet time so more students can use the facilities. It also saves a lot of water. Here in California that is a HUGE issue.

Photoflo is a wetting agent, as is LFN. I use LFN because it is dispensed by the drop but either one works great as long as they aren't mixed too strong.

Bottom line, if you use a school's darkroom it is extremely important NOT to deviate from the standard system. This is where contamination and chemical problems come from.

[Nathan Potter]

More info is needed to make an informed analysis.

It appears to be surface contamination. The first photo shows linear streaks and that should be a bit of a clue. I don't see any dendritic type growth which might indicate some kinds of chemical contamination.

1. Is it on both sides of the film?
2. Is it at the surface of the film?
3. Can it be wiped off easily with a soft cloth?
4. Can it be scraped off with a wooden stick using some force?
5. Are all the films affected to about the same degree?
6. Is the contamination opaque, translucent or mostly clear?
7. Was all your processing chemistry clear prior to using?
8. Do the linear streaks appear on all the films?

The process as you describe it should not produce such an effect but in photographic processing, cleanliness is next to godliness so to speak. Shared darkrooms can be tough so a thorough cleaning of all equipment beforehand is really necessary.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[bspeed]

ah, the school labs.... bet there was contminated chemicals somewhere in the setup.

by any chance do they require the students to pour back and reuse fixer, stop and hypoclear ??

[Glenn Thoreson]

How did you mix that Photo-Flo? Kodaks instructions are way off. 3 or 4 drops in a quart of water is plenty. Do not save it after the session is done and re-use it. It can go nasty. Photo-Flo works well if you're careful. If you're not, it can leave a nasty mess on your negatives. Continue using the Perma Wash. Cut your fixing time to ten minutes with regular fixers and five to seven minutes with Rapid fixers. For using a water stop, give it a little more time and a couple of changes of water.
I'm betting it was the Photo-Flo. Don't ask how I know this......

[John T]

Did you show the negs to your teacher? Not only can he/she maybe provide the answer because it is a lot easier to tell the problem if one can see the actual neg, but also, it might indicate that the system might need an overhaul.

I taught and ran the darkroom at a small college for 7 years. In that time we had some chemical issues-usually things like someone pouring fixer down the drain, but for the most part there were very few problems. However, as anyone experienced in this type of situation knows, there is always a new thing that rears it's ugly head. The biggest thing that makes me doubt the contamination thing is the 3-dimensional appearance of the marks. The streaks bother me too, but re-reading the OP may have explained them.

I've tried re-fixing, soaking in hot water, using anti-stat negative cleaner...

These can't be good. If the negative was wiped before drying (this school's workflow seems like an old-school system), the emulsion was weaken at this point. He saw the "alligator skin" texture and tried to solve the problem. He refixed it (shouldn't have done anything except maybe slightly bleach out the image) soaked it in hot water (how did he gently cool down the neg after this), used anti-stat negative cleaner (a solvent based liquid that you apply by wiping onto the film).

But without more feedback from the OP it would be hard to know for sure.

[walter23]

disregard what Walter and the others said.

My recommendations were meant just to remove as many extra variables as possible - simplify the process to the bare minimum to remove any possible culprits in the process. But your advice isn't bad either, especially this piece:

Bottom line, if you use a school's darkroom it is extremely important NOT to deviate from the standard system. This is where contamination and chemical problems come from.