Wild Idea for Next-Gen LF

[Struan Gray]

For small formats it is arguable you need the precision that a motorised mount can give, and the magnification offered by some kind of digital sensor fed to a screen. For 8x10 it seems a bit pointless. The ground glass is already a high-quality viewing screen; a low power loupe gives you all the magnification you need to focus; and, critically, the angles and distances involved in real-world movements are large enough to be set by hand.

However, I think it is only a matter of time before someone makes a small-format view camera with motorised movements and a video-rate readout of the focal plane imaging chip. Beasts like the Linhof M69 and the Sinar P3 already look like laboratory optics mounts, and such mounts have been available in motorised versions for years. Admittedly, the currently available motors require mains power, but for still life studio work that's not going to be a problem, and high-end architecture shoots can fit in a power source amid all the other gubbins.

[Andreas B]

And just to put things in perspective, a handful of famous predictions:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

Fictional.

"But what...is it good for?"
- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip

Fictional.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of DEC

Quote mining. In the way the word computer is meant here, it still holds true today.

And, of course, the favorite:

"640 K ought to be enough for anyone"
- Bill Gates, 1981

Also fictional.

Zero out of four. As the kids say these days: Epic fail.

[Marko]

This one would clearly fall into the "no wits" category.

Gotta love these characters who tend to come out of nowhere lately, have one or two postings in the history, come down on you with such elaborate assuredness and never show up again when the "discussion" is over.

Come on, this can't possibly be your best shot, you should be able to dream up something less obvious. Or get a life.

[Andreas B]

Come on, this can't possibly be your best shot, you should be able to dream up something less obvious. Or get a life.

Your were trying to bolster your point by quotes. All of them either fake or botched in meaning. In that light, you shouldn't be the one berating others for their debating methods.

If you want my opinion on the original proposal: It aims to replace a well proven, simple device (the ground glass) with a giant image sensor (which doesn't exist) and a just as big LCD. Adding weight, adding the requirement for a (likely big) power source, adding the requirement to produce parts that are way beyond anything existing (the image sensor) with the price tag that comes with that, only to put all that aside when you finally make the picture on film. That's not a great idea, that's a Rube Goldberg contraption.

More to the point, I'm disagreeing with the glorification of those who have all those great "ideas" and nothing more. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Having ideas that can be made to work, and making them work, is an entirely different thing.

While we're quoting people:

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
— Antoine de Saint Exupéry

[Marko]

Your were trying to bolster your point by quotes. All of them either fake or botched in meaning. In that light, you shouldn't be the one berating others for their debating methods.

Actually, no, I wasn't trying to bolster my point by quotes. I was trying to lighten up the needlessly overheated atmosphere by using that little thing called humor. I work in a computer-related field hence my choice of computer-related humor.

Had I really wanted to bolster my argument by using someone else's account of yet other people's words, I'd use one of the countless engineer "quotes".

If you want my opinion on the original proposal: It aims to replace a well proven, simple device (the ground glass) with a giant image sensor (which doesn't exist) and a just as big LCD. Adding weight, adding the requirement for a (likely big) power source, adding the requirement to produce parts that are way beyond anything existing (the image sensor) with the price tag that comes with that, only to put all that aside when you finally make the picture on film. That's not a great idea, that's a Rube Goldberg contraption.

We are all entitled to our opinions and indeed everybody has one, as the old saying goes. The fact that your opinion is different than mine does not necessarily mean that either of us is right or wrong, it simply demonstrates that each one of us indeed has an opinion...

My take on the idea is a bit different - instead of questioning the OP's idea based on currently available technology and its specifications and cost, I chose to question the conclusion. After going through all that trouble to remake a 19th century device into a 21st century one, I see no point in sticking equally 19th century sensor in the back. Why not replace that too?

More to the point, I'm disagreeing with the glorification of those who have all those great "ideas" and nothing more. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Having ideas that can be made to work, and making them work, is an entirely different thing.

The thing is, you don't know if the idea is or could potentially be feasible unless and until you try it. My point is that coming up with an idea takes a very different skill set than making an idea work.

While we're quoting people:

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
— Antoine de Saint Exupéry

Ah yes, the Little Prince, one of my favorite childhood books. A bit ironic choice though in the light of this discussion for de Saint Exupéry didn't invent that principle either - he simply phrased it well. Some also call it the KISS Principle while others call it Bauhaus, depending on one's angle of view and education.

[John Whitley]

lol - it's a great idea, but in reality this thing would cost thousands and thousands of dollars and only do slightly more than a piece of ground glass and a bubble level!

The display technology will soon be light, cheap, and durable using an "e-ink" type display, preferably touch-enabled.

I can't imagine an 8x10 CCD? I mean, even a low resolution one. It would cost millions of dollars to produce - one in a thousand would be acceptable.

Blink and it'll be here. RED has already announced a full 6x17 format sensor, price estimated to be 55,000 USD, if I recall correctly. We'll see when that sensor actually appears in the marketplace, but just a little while ago it would have been impossible to produce at any price. Consider that large flat-panel HD displays are readily available now that would have been similarly impossible just a few years back.

While we're dreaming, I expect that the bit that will remain expensive would be the engineering surrounding the camera's movements -- make 'em servo controlled. Pick a few points on screen, and camera AF goes to work keeping those areas in sharp focus. Use touch gestures, swiping, pinching, twisting, etc. for precise control of front and back movements with immediate visual feedback. No loupe needed; just double-tap to zoom in and pan around, double tap again to return to the composition view.

OTOH, computational imaging techniques may render such a beast moot. Single-lens digital capture may one day be seen as very limiting, and going multi-lens would avoid the need for a huge monolithic sensor and offer greater creative flexibility in post.

[Nathan Potter]

Another possibly big advantage of using an active focusing screen (such as LCD low cost type) would be to optimize movements and focus point. Pixel output could be used with appropriate processing algorithms to determine Circle Of Confusion sizes anywhere on the focusing screen. I'm getting a bit intrigued by this.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Wayne Crider]

Your thinking about the new iLargeFormatCamera from Apple. It also incorporates a GPS, makes phone calls to tell the wifey you'll be late and you can access this forum for last minute searches thru the internet. The GG image turns with a finger movement. One of the best parts is using Goggle Earth for image searches and them getting directions to get there.

[JBrunner]

Judging from the recent performance of the high end electronics in a couple of airplanes, and every computer I have ever owned, I'll take my camera without, thanks.

[Marko]

Some people are good with computers and some are better suited for shovels. There is a perfect tool for everybody out there.

P.S.
As the irony would have it, reading about the more recent of these two accidents, it appears that the computer was functioning flawlessly but was being fed erroneous data by a faulty altimeter (usually an analog instrument).