Photographing a large group

[JohnGC]

I have to photograph my church congregation in front of the church. The church is 200 years old, and we want to do a modern period piece like they did at the 100 year anniversary. I've done architecture, and a some portrait work, but never such a large crowd.

I did a "first run" test yesterday using a P&S digital on a tripod. The test gave me a chance to assess lenses to use, how the crowd responded to my directions, choose where I want to set up the LF cameras..etc. Technically the shot should not be too difficult, but the crowd of over 150 people is a little daunting.

Due to space and topography conditions, I'll be in fairly close, using shorter lenses. I'll have 2 cameras, 4x5 and 11x14 (using 8x10 film) at slightly different positions, and a second shooter. Lighting will be available sunlight.

How to you keep a group that large still long enough for an exposure using a f-stop small enough to get the whole crowd in focus? Is there a rule of thumb of what is too long a time for a crowd? The people listened to me well enough, but I found the group overall to be a lot less patient, and way less attentive then small groups of 3 or 4. There are also many children. I think the attraction of the 11x14 Wisner camera might peek more interest and understanding for stillness the the digital did, but I don't know...

Any tips, hints suggestions?

[Ralph Barker]

You've seen those really wide rolls of clear plastic wrap they use on shipments on pallets? Just wrap 'em and stack 'em. You have to work fast, though, or someone is bound to run off.

It seems to me that your approach will depend on the arrangement of the people and how much of the church you want to include in the photo. If it's just the people, and they are standing on a bleacher-like structure, you can use a touch of tilt to drop the focus plane to run along the plane of their faces, and a wider f-stop to shorten the exposure time. But, if a lot of the church is to be included, you're probably better off keeping the camera standards squared, and just explain to them in advance that they can move only when you tell them to. Allusions to hell fire and brimstone may help.

[chris_4622]

I haven't done anything with the size you are talking about. With the groups I have done I hold something (darkslide) above my head and make motions with it to signal when to stand still and when they can move. A couple of practice runs gets everyone focused.

[argos33]

I took a group portrait with my 8x10 calumet in similar circumstances. The group was inside of a large garage so I supplemented the available light with some strobes. Really all you can do it push the film or get higher speed film for more DOF. I was using a 240mm lens since I could only back up so far before I hit the wall. I strongly suggest taking Ralph's advice and using a little tilt if need be to get all the faces in focus, since that is most important.

A helpful trick for getting everyone's eyes open is to have them all close their eyes for 30 seconds, then tell them to open them, look at you, and release the shutter. This also helps keep the kids still since they won't be looking around and moving as much with their eyes closed.

Evan

[Richard M. Coda]

I'm interested in seeing your result. Will you post here?

[JohnGC]

Thanks guys!

I considered spilling some glue to keep the kids from getting away.

For the assigned photo, keeping the building in focus as well as the people will be important, but I'll try a shot with a little tilt. If I lose focus on the steeple, it will be better then losing focus on the kids standing on the bottom steps. I'm going to take 8x10 shots of the building before I attempt the group shot. This is the oldest building in my city, and I hope to generate some local community interest, and maybe get some photos displayed at the city's museum.

Waving a slide is a good idea! I think I'll use a flag...wave it for them to get ready hold it still when they need to be still, and drop it when they can relax. I can signal with the flag when my brother is shooting the 4x5, and pass it to him to signal when I'm shooting the 8x10.

I've got a film hypering kit for astrophotography. The tank fits 4x5, so I could really push some t-max and portra...hmmmm.

I have never heard of the idea of having people close their eyes to get ready to keep them open. I'll try that!

Thanks, the group shot will be in early spring. I have some time to prepare, and have a couple of sessions photographing the building alone. I'll post results, it should be a fun project.

Please keep the ideas coming!

[argos33]

Perhaps you could show up early and get a photograph of the building (without people in the frame) from the same vantage point. That way you have another negative of the building in focus (where it doesn't matter about the shutter speed) and could potentially combine the two later. There is even software that will do that for you, I can't remember the name of it right now but it lets you combine multiple photos with different DOF for one continuous sharp image. A friend of mine uses it for macro photos but I don't see why it wouldn't work for scanned film images.

Evan

[Michael Wynd]

I used to photograph large groups of school kids (up to 600). I always took at least two shots sometimes more. One way I found to get them to hold still was to yell out, "Ready.. Hoooooolllllllllddddd it." I kept the shutter open all the way through the hold it. I found that because I was looking at them when I said it that they would remain still for the time the shutter was open.
If you take two shots and then scan them into your computer you can put the best shot of individuals into the photo you want to use.
Mike

[otzi]

I too have never shot that many folk in one hit. Never the less same principles apply. The wider the angle, the more the assumed depth. If using a step ladder and wrapping the folk around you the slight elevation tends to keep the faces clear of the coats. You will never get all of them so don't fret. It can take considerable spruking to engender some enthusiasm but in the end you just do what you can. A surprise "hold it" can often work a couple of times only do some thing different and unexpected. If it's the first they see of your surprise it will hold them for a few precious moments. ie a big flag or stuffed toy. I knew of a photographer who produced and held onto his white pigeon while it flapped. worked remarkably well.

[cjbroadbent]

T...I considered spilling some glue to keep the kids from getting away...

I've managed to shoot LF groups of children by projecting cartoons onto a little screen attached above the lens.
The children are tense and gormless while the cartoon runs, but you can shift them around like sacks of grain. The moment the cartoon stops the kids relax and break into happy smiles towards the camera. That is the moment. But keep the cartoons short.