Call and talk to them about it.
Call and talk to them about it.
Did you ask for full bleed?
In my experience, having worked in photo labs in the past, a print will be made with borders unless the customer specifically asks for full bleed. 23.5" means that you have a border that is normal for a print made on 20"x24" paper, from a 4x5 image, unless you asked them not to print with borders. If you had asked for a 16x20, with no other instruction then you would most likely have received a 15.5" or so x 19.5" or so image on 16x20 paper. (Some labs, on the other hand, typically print with no borders and only print with borders if the customer specifically asks for them)
Pro labs assume that the customer knows what they want and asks for it. They do not have time to hold your hand. I don't mean that to be rude--like it sounds. I am only trying to be direct.
If you can develop a relationship with the people at the lab then you will be able to get the best service that they can provide.
I am of course typing without any knowledge of the particular lab that you are using.
Sudek ambled across my mind one day and took his picture. Only he knows where it is.
David Vickery
Direct and true! A good pro lab, in my experience though, will spend as much time as necessary to understand the requirements of the job... but probably not a moment longer. It is up to the customer to make sure that the lab fully understands what they are being expected to produce and has recorded the requirements correctly because it is often someone else who will produce the product, not necessarily the guy who took the order.Originally Posted by David Vickery
I want to understand this. You are saying that when someone orders a 16x20, that they should expect it to be another size like 15 3/8 X 19 3/8? I didn't realize that 16 x 20 photos had gone the way of the 2X4. As someone who owned a gallery and frame shop for nearly 16 years, a 16X20 inch frame was 16x20, not smaller, not larger. If we use the above logic, because I print an 11x14 image or 14x18 image on a 16X20 piece of paper, it qualifies as a 16X20. I just think labs should be the one to make sure you know their policies after all, a foot is still 12 inches last I checked. Imagine if your 8x10 film came in at 7 1/2 x 9 1/2. I know that probably isn't a good analogy, but I would think that it is not unreasonable to expect a 16 x 20 or any other size to be the actual size, and if not, why not let your customer know?
Jim, I agree with you up to a point (the 2x4 situation, though, is well known by anyone in that business) -- the responsiblity for understanding the requirements are shared.
The part the OP hasn't yet revealed is what the conversation was between he and the lab. If it was 'will you please print my 4x5 neg in 20x24' then a lot was left unsaid. That, IMO, is basically allowing the lab to use their creative judgement and methods as they choose. If it was 'will you please print my 4x5 neg in 20x24 with borders' then less was left unsaid but there may still be differing assumptions being made about border width, etc.
Who, really, holds the greater responsibility for knowing what the creative result is intended to be. I, for one, don't expect a lab to question my intent unless I'm asking the absolute impossible of them. But I can't disagree with you that a little 'facilitation' on the labs part would be nice for those who may not know what their options and the impacts of their instructions are.
And you are right, it is not a good analogy. 1) If the film was actually 8x10, we could not fit it into our holders...it has to be smaller. 2) We'd be in deep dodo if a client asks for an 8x10 tranny for a product shot...and then refuses to pay because, while the film is almost 8x10, the image on the film is even smaller.
When I make a platinum print from an 8x10 negative on 11x14 paper, I do not call it an 11x14 print -- but I also do not call it a 7.875 x 9.875 image.
Printing to the edge of the paper is the exception, not the rule -- anyone who has used an easel in the darkroom knows this. Lacking an industrial standard of the definition of a 20x24 print, it is the responcibility of both the printer and the customer to communicate effectively about what is wanted.
Vaughn
To recap a bit what others are saying, it always helps to specify from the get-go what you want to avoid disappointment, although they seemed to have come up with a good-faith estimation of what you wanted, even if it would have helped if they had flagged this for you, to ask whether this discrepancy was OK. The more specific you are, the more the lab will listen to you, and also help you troubleshoot. Or said another way, the slower you go, the more they slow down for you to hear you.
Specify crops, if any, or full frame.
Give dimensions for both image size and paper size, thereby specifying the nature of the border, if any.
If you are unsure of the enlarged dimensions of your image area, either have them tell you what it will be to get your OK, or at least have them meet the longest of the two. When I get a 6x7cm neg printed to 20x24, for example, I know it will reach the 24 before it reaches the 20, because it's slightly fatter than a 4x5 or 8x10 shape.
Last edited by claudiocambon; 13-Feb-2009 at 08:03. Reason: spe%#7ng
What would have been needed to be said was Full 20x24 print from this 4x5 transparency!I have dealt with Adorama and when I ask for something that can not be done they email and explain and give me options for the print !
Lauren MacIntosh
Whats in back of you is the past and whats in front of you is the future now in the middle you have choices to make for yourself:
I would call the lab that you dealt with and express your concerns with them. I am a small buisness owner and I am sure they would rather correct the situation than loose yiour buisness, especially in this buisness climate. And use this as a learning experience for future printing to be very specific in what you expect the final print to be. Just my 2 cents.
I agree that should talk over your concerns; if they listen and act on your concerns, they're likely worth working with in the future. If not....
Customers, of course, also should discuss their needs/goals with a business ahead of time to ensure communication is crystal clear. Further, any business has an obligation to make sure its customers understand what its policies are, even if they have to be repeated for every customer. That's called professionalism.
Mike
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