The £6k to £8k was a budget I was willing to spend getting everything I need from the ground up and was also set without prior knowledge regarding large format equipment. It certainly looks like I will spend significantly less after reading all the helpful comments, of which are allowing me to rethink and plan carefully, exactly what I need, for that I am very grateful.
Hi John,Originally Posted by FearZeus
You can do a lot more than 4-5 images per month but it takes about an hour to setup and clean up after plus about half an hour per scan..
Getting good scans done by third party companies is expensive!
Expect to have to pay around £1-2k for a drum scanner that will work out of the box.. You can get some for £300-£800 but you'll end up playing with old mac computers, out of date hardware, searching for scsi cards, etc..
Tim
If you are just starting with large format why would you commit to such an investment before actually using a 4x5? It would be like a never-ever driver popping in to buy a Lexus or maybe the better example would be a custom race car.
Using a 4x5 is an almost entirely different experience from using a DSLR -- and there is a huge, almost infinite world of possibilities inbetween. So spending $10,000 US on a system before you've even gotten your feet wet is, umm, kind of crazy.
Do a workshop or even hire a private tutor. You've save a lot of money.
I would agree with Frank. If it weren't for the opportunity to go on the first UKLFPG workshop, four years ago, I would have had no idea of the options available beyond getting something like a Cambo monorail.
On the workshop, I got to try out a Shen Hao, looked at a couple of Wista metal cameras and fondled an Ebony. Shortly after that, I (foolishly acquired a Sinar F1 from a photographer who was moving to digital; discovered just how difficult it could be to cart that around and, in the end, traded it in at Teamwork in London. The only reason I got an Ebony SV45Te was because Teamwork had that and a Wista wooden camera available secondhand; if the Ebony hadn't been priced at a ridiculously low £1100, I would have contented myself with the Wista and, more than likely, taken just as good pictures with that.
Having now used the Ebony for over four years, I can say that, apart from the sheer sexiness of such a wooden beast, I would just as happily go for a Walker, which I could have had for the same price... but brand new.
I shall be going to see Mike Walker shortly; I may have to be very disciplined and leave my purse at home; I am starting to get a severe attack of the wants for a Titan SF
You might even stumble upon the Ultimate Starter Set:
Pacemaker Speed Graphic
2 lenses
5 holders
100 USD.
That's how I got back to 4x5 after an absence of several decades.
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the North Carolina rainforest.
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I have no worries about buying such an expensive camera to start out with as I'm 100% confident on settling into using large format for my landscape work. I'm sure it's going to be frustrating at first getting used to all the movements and viewing my results will probably have me nutting my steering wheel in the car outside the lab, but knowing me better than anyone else, I know that I will adjust quickly produce some stunning landscapes with the Ebony 45SU. The Titan SF and Chamonix did catch my eye but I decided on the Ebony for it's extra versatility.
I can't fault the decision.. I would try to budget as much money on your tripod and head as possible (i.e. get a big gitzo and a b3/BH55 or 410)
Tim
Judging by your folder on photo.net, you're making the right choice in getting a camera that can handle a 47mm SA-XL.
Your original question, however, noted that you use focals up to 200mm in 135 format. You should be aware that the 45SU will not really handle normal lenses longer than 300mm, which is about 80mm in 135 format. If you choose a telephoto lens, you could focus a 400mm lens with ease, but I find Ebony's recommendation of a 500mm lens kind of iffy with only 365mm of extension---the Nikkor 500mm requires 350mm of bellows for infinity.
Ebony makes a 90mm bellows extension for the camera, which I think would be mandatory to use a 500mm telephoto, but that lens is still only a 135mm equivalent on 135 format. If you really do intend to use longer lenses on 4x5, I would consider getting either an extra camera or a modular Arca Swiss instead of the Ebony.
Changing from 35mm (or DSLR) to LF is sorta like changing from trumpet to saxophone. What you know about music carries over, but what you know about how to play the trumpet is of very little help in learning to play the sax. What I'm saying is, LF isn't DSLR and you aren't going to be able to treat it the same no matter how much you want to.
I persist in pointing this out to newbies because I think people making this transition need to hear it. Not because I think you'll pay the slightest bit of attention. I mean, I didn't when I made the transition myself. But the price paid for ignoring this advice can be steep; I'm just trying to save you months of frustration is all.
First off, you aren't likely going to use equivalent lenses. It's hard to believe that, but it's true. Second, your workflow will be radically different. The big difference is you won't approach the scene with your camera stuck to your face and "frame with your feet" like most small formatters do. The far more normal LFer way is to walk the scene without the camera, find the perspective that works for what you want, then setup your tripod, setup your camera, and pick the lens that gives you the appropriate angle of view for what you want to capture. With LF you'll make one exposure where the DSLR guy will make 100+. It's a completely different way of working.
It's sufficiently different that I *strongly* urge you to learn to use a view camera with a "normal" lens. I wish I had -- it would have saved me a lot of time and a lot of film. Pick a nice used 150mm, or even something in the 135-210mm range. It's *much* easier to learn to focus and use movements when you can clearly see what you are doing. Learning with a normal lens will cut months off your learning curve.
I also advise you to *not* get the binocular reflex viewing attachments. At least not at the beginning. Learn to use the ground glass. It's actually very beneficial, especially in composition, to see your image upside down and backwards. After you've done it a while you'll find that your brain adjusts and you only see it upside down when you will it.
You asked for "any tips and pointers that would save any frustration..." and those are mine. Use them how you will.
Bruce Watson
Shhhhh, inexpensive barely-used Ebony cameras have to come from someplace Bruce. Even though your advice is spot-on, he seems determined.
Don't anyone mention that 8x10 is even better -- and easier -- than 4x5 ;-)
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