Drum scanning as part of a business

[JohnGC]

I posted on the digital darkroom that I may acquire a later model Crosfield Celsis 6200 Drum Scanner. I think I can get it for little more than transportation costs. So it brings up some questions...

Does anyone do drum a scanning service offered to artist and other LF photographers, as part of their business? Is it worth your time?

Is there room in he San Diego market for another business doing art printing as part of a diversified photography business?

Am I crazy for trying something like this?

I tried this a few years ago, but did not have the knowledge, equipment, or a good plan at the time. I now have things in place better, and after my shoulder surgery, I hope to make a go at it....economy permitting...

any random thought from you guys?

Thanks!

[g.lancia]

Yes, you are going to be very successfull and those selling you the scanner are plain stupid, since it is such a great business to be in. Go for it! The world is full of people with no business understanding, it is time you show them The Way.

[Gordon Moat]

There was briefly a place in the Little Italy area of San Diego that was doing large art prints. They were trying to get some of the potential business from all those condo sales, with the hope that those places would fill up and need things to hang on their walls. Unfortunately that plan didn't work too well.

There are two prominent large print places in the north part of San Diego County, and three in the central part of the county that I know are doing okay. One of those in the north part of the County is owned by one of the local indian tribes, and funded through them. I guess that leaves a question of whether there is room for another company.

Scanning in San Diego County is much more limited. I know of only two places with drum scanners, and both of those are Dainippon Screen of about 8 to 10 years vintage. Those two places cater to the commercial printing and pre-press market, or what is left of it. There are other places with high end flatbeds, though again more of a commercial market.

The biggest problem that has put many off of getting drum scans done has been the price per MB fees. The benefit is really to get high resolution large files, and unfortunately they can be expensive. This is why most drum scanner operators look towards commercial clients, rather than enthusiasts.

I previously wrote up a business plan including scanning, with a pricing structure based upon per CD-R, or per hour, rather than per MB. Anyway, I never went through with that idea, though perhaps if you approach your service offerings in a different manner, you could make this work nicely.

There is the annual printing industry trade show coming up soon at the Convention Center in downtown San Diego. You might want to go there and talk to some of the companies with scanners, and see what they are doing. While this is more commercial than art based, the technology usage is the same. It is free to attend the trade show floor. You can also see the latest in wide printers, and get some samples.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[DrPablo]

Does anyone do drum a scanning service offered to artist and other LF photographers, as part of their business? Is it worth your time?

I do a few bulk orders just to help pay for the scanner (this isn't part of any larger business). The upside is that drum scan services are SO expensive that you can undersell established services and still get a lot for your time.

The downside is that it takes a lot of practice, and learning "on the job" is not easy. People may have very exacting standards if they're seeking drum scans, and I've re-scanned some chromes for people to make sure they get what they want -- and that takes time. Finally, given the huge pain of getting scanners serviced, you want to be careful not to burn out a scanner that you've mainly gotten for personal use.

I got my scanner (a Howtek) partly for my personal photography hobby and partly to scan a billion medium format negatives of my wedding that the photographer sent to us. If I kill the scanner before getting to the wedding negatives, my wife won't be pleased!

[Bruce Watson]

Does anyone do drum a scanning service offered to artist and other LF photographers, as part of their business? Is it worth your time?

There are a number of LF people who do this. My drum scanning service is aimed squarely at LFers, for example. Many of the others you can find by searching around on the 'net. Is it worth your time? I guess that depends on how you value your time.

[Kuzano]

While some are shutting down in the PNW...(just lost our custom processor in Bend Or--- last one), some are expanding. Pro Photo Supply in Portland Or, moved and expanded the processing, scanning, printing side of their business about a year ago. Their web site is www.prophotosupply.com. The have a price list on the site. I recently paid the following:

Process a strip of 120 (6X9) 4.95
Scan the images to CD (HR) 9.00/roll
Sleeve the transparencies 1.50.

Don't know if this helps, but this is a current and recently revised price model.

[JohnGC]

Thank you all. great info!

g.lancia, thank you a thousand times for that prediction....I'm going to do my best to make it happen!

Gordon, thanks, you're a wealth of info, looking forward to meeting you...this could be an new section of my bus. plan. You're pricing idea is interesting. I'm in a home based business of family members, so overhead can be kept down, leaving room for unique a pricing structure. Thanks for the tip on the printing show, I marked the calender and will attend. With a 60" colorspan and a greytag spectrophotometer. I'm set for the printing end of the business but it's always good to know whats new.

Paul, We're are using a Howtek 4500 now, great scanner...Wet mounting is not easy, I figure I need to mount a couple of hundred more trans. before I'm ready to touch a customers originals. I guess that's another excuse to take more photos.

Bruce, thanks, It's great to know that someone is doing this successfully!

thanks, Kuzano, pricing and link are a great help!

[DrPablo]

Paul, We're are using a Howtek 4500 now, great scanner...Wet mounting is not easy, I figure I need to mount a couple of hundred more trans. before I'm ready to touch a customers originals. I guess that's another excuse to take more photos.

I did the same. I scanned hundreds of my own before ever touching an important one of my own (let alone a customer's).

The biggest trick I ran into was getting lint and dust on the outside of the mylar. I found that Photex scanner wipes, even when wet with drum cleaning fluid, generated a lot of static on the outside of the mylar, and I'd get lint on there showing up in scans. I now use kimwipes (with Prazio drum cleaning fluid) to wipe off the mylar right before a scan and they look cleaner.

The other great tip I got on the High End Scan user's group was to put tabs of tape on the trailing end of the mylar to pull it tight. I usually put 15-20 on there. That keeps out bubbles, which are never a problem with 120 and 135 film but often a problem with stiffer sheet film.

[bvstaples]

John et al.:

My two cents, for what it's worth, and from a strictly personal standpoint...

I generally don't use commercial services for scanning, as they tend to be very expensive. Chrome in Little Italy does scans (though I believe it's a flatbed Scitex and not a drum scanner), and an 8x10 color transparency scanned to 4x (that provides a 32x40 file) comes to between 275-350MB. This scan cost about 100 bucks. As a print production manager, this cost is OK in the scope of commercial publication work (but see below); for my personal art use, it's beyond my cost limits. I use an Epson 4990 for my quick and dirty stuff, and an XL 10000 when I want a better scan. When I really need a high-end drum scan, I usually avail myself to one of my commercial printers for "a favor." There are at least five commercial printers in town that have high-end drum scanners.

I'm not sure what market you're after: local LF shooters, or just LF shooters in general (mail/web order), or what price points you need to hit. I can tell you as a commercial print production manager that the photography I use for my business purposes comes from digital cameras or stock services only; it's the most ecomonical workflow. I could never fit LF scans into any project budgets I'm working on, no matter how high-end. I'd be curious to know how many folks are shooting LF film that's being scanned and used in commercial work, like catalogs.


Brian

Brian

[Gordon Moat]

Hello Brian,

Chrome is using an EverSmart Pro, and I can vouch for the quality of their scans. They are not doing wet mount scans. The only economical way to get the larger scans is to have them produce a larger print, though the turn-around time is longer doing things that way.

I think Neyenesch and one other printing place in Carlsbad had Screen 1030 drums (might be off on the model number). I knew of one place in the La Mesa/El Cajon area that had a Howtek. I'm curious who the other places were that you have used?

I have a heavy Heidelberg flatbed for my 4x5 commercial work, unless I need even larger scans. However, I do not do any catalogue work; actually, I only know of one studio in town that does much catalogue work at all. I recall about eight years ago there were several product photography specialist places that began appearing at the annual Print Week downtown. At the time I thought that would drive most product and catalogue photographers completely out of the business, despite that they were only doing simple layouts. Even eight years ago, those places were using Leaf and PhaseOne (and Kodak) digital backs; it simply makes more sense for high volume work.

The few local shooters I know using large format for commercial work are doing advertising related work, and not for catalogues. One of them is processing and scanning (Imacon) all their own work. It is only viable because of the results, and more favorable turn-around, which is why I largely use 4x5 for my work. Interestingly, I have never delivered film to a client, only digital files; I don't know of anyone who delivers film to a client.

Commercially I think there is room for drum scanning if the turn-around is reasonable, the quality is there, and the cost allows one to stay within the clients/agencies budget. Local clients are really tight on budgets, so I would doubt there is much room there. To be successful in the San Diego market often can mean needing work coming in from outside San Diego; a local only approach might be very limited.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography