An old tired Horse called the Lounge

[Darryl Baird]

I was pretty disappointed with the decision as well, but didn't really feel it was my place to complain. I actually tried to stay away from here, thinking I'd maybe become too invested in the forum, and needed a life. But I live in a very small town (read: vacuum) and really missed the interaction, even if it's somewhat hamstrung and limited.

Now I'm not so sure. The place now seems altogether toothless. Clearly I still need a life. But I would like the opportunity to get to know the people that frequent this site, and with the the new regs, that's seems unlikely to happen. So I wonder what am I participating with, exactly.

I too live in a vacuum (of my choosing), but felt I'd like to hang out with some photo-savvy adults. I'm around full-blown, shouting liberals and artists all day (a university), and there are few exchanges that get to the heart of the differences that divide and define each of us citizens of the world. When I come into the lounge I fully expect to be challenged, outraged, confused, saddened, mischievous, engaged, and (last and probably most important) alive. I've done enough photography (since 1969) to be slightly jaded and appreciate the vitality and guts many members exude... it's a balm to my senses to be around this level of passion.

I could always drop down a floor to visit colleagues in the school of management, but they have a unique and quantitative view of the current politics. I prefer to get my "opposition" from people who have traveled many of the same paths I have, but made different personal choices... that's the meat of the forum, and the lounge. I know and respect Frank P (more like envy!), Mark S (we had a few tussles, but then he likes to fish too), and finally I may remove Deane from my ignore list to read her contributions (it's a vehicle to keep my blood pressure in check ).

Strangely, many of the worst offenders of decorum from the liberal side, are absent in this discussion. Has the chill of censorship already taken its toll? The loyal conservatives have come back to engage... possibly a sign that we can still talk and find a purpose together here? Fist bumps all around! I'll buy the next round.

Bring back red blood, real voices, and sweaty, gritty passion... your future creativity may depend on it...

[Geary Lyons]

Deane,
I suggest to read my post # 25 on how I can find room for a democratic slant in the LFPF.

Your last thought doesn't make any sense to me.
How can my thoughts about this matter have anything to do with my work?
My work stands alone and it is born from the same set of ideals that have inspired me to write in this forum today.

Dominico,
You are being far too kind. Quite honestly none of the points made sense to me. But then the whole "sheep-to-slaughter" attitude befuddles me. I agree with you and your quest. I do not subscribe to the "owner" definition as a dictatorial perogative. I appreciate that resources are provided and/or donated, I just do not see that as justification to the espoused "My way or the highway!" that constantly get tossed up by the lemmings.

Seems, to me, that the forum has become even more a FS venue /classified and less a community to share thoughts and ideas. Perhaps just my bias tainting my perceptions!

Cheers,
Geary

[domenico Foschi]

I knew that what I wrote might have led to some misunderstanding.
Yes, it does makes sense and let me expand on that.

My work has nothing to do with my thoughts on this matter and if you had read all my posts you might have seen that I don't care to talk about politics, to me is the censorship issue that hits home deeply, because limits a person's mind to be expressed.

My work is born from that same source that deems the basics universal values the most important parameters by which life should be lived and, at the same time, my images being from a language other than words stand by themselves.

Please, if you are thinking to rebuke to this post, know that I have no intention to engage in a back and forth with you.
Actually, from now on I will be a spectator in this thread. I will be looking forward to read other people's input.

[Mark Sloane]

Bring back red blood, real voices, and sweaty, gritty passion... your future creativity may depend on it...

I concur and I might even take you fishing?

[Marko]

I was hoping for an open debate with the "management" but nobody has come forth yet.
Is this the "shrug" you were talking about Marko?

It is.

I chose to join to this "privately owned" community a few years ago because I liked the concept and the rules that existed at that time, as well as the audience they attracted. Now that the rules changed in a way that leaves me less than thrilled - make that much less -, I have no qualms articulating my opinion in an honest attempt to talk to the management before I do decide to go elsewhere.

If the management doesn't care to dignify long time bona fide members any reply at all, that is fine too, that's a very clear reply in itself and a good indicator of the direction the community is taking.

[Darryl Baird]

I concur and I might even take you fishing?

oh man, that's a definite maybe.. seriously, when I talk to friends (I have a few, really) who tend to make time in their life to fish, the excitement they bring to the table is palpable. I think (I heard if from several plumbers named Joe... just kidding, they actually laid ceramic tile, but the idea is the same and so is the humor ) that Michigan is great for fishing... I'm soooooo envious. Montana, Michigan, Oregon, ???? I've got to get a rod and go fishing ...full disclosure -- I have never been fly fishing.

[Mark Sloane]

oh man, that's a definite maybe.. seriously, when I talk to friends (I have a few, really) who tend to make time in their life to fish, the excitement they bring to the table is palpable. I think (I heard if from several plumbers named Joe... just kidding, they actually laid ceramic tile, but the idea is the same and so is the humor ) that Michigan is great for fishing... I'm soooooo envious. Montana, Michigan, Oregon, ???? I've got to get a rod and go fishing ...full disclosure -- I have never been fly fishing.

I take people fly fishing for the first time every summer and they always have fun and catch trout!

If you ever come to CA you have a free guide (me) for two days in Northern CA in the shadow of Mt. Shasta!

But keep it to yourself otherwise I might end up spending two days with Kev on the river. We'd never catch any fish because we would never stop arguing!

[Greg Lockrey]

oh man, that's a definite maybe.. seriously, when I talk to friends (I have a few, really) who tend to make time in their life to fish, the excitement they bring to the table is palpable. I think (I heard if from several plumbers named Joe... just kidding, they actually laid ceramic tile, but the idea is the same and so is the humor ) that Michigan is great for fishing... I'm soooooo envious. Montana, Michigan, Oregon, ???? I've got to get a rod and go fishing ...full disclosure -- I have never been fly fishing.

Never been flyfishing and you live in Michigan where there are some of the best flyfishing streams in the world? Man, this is almost blasphemous. (Opps! this can be construed as religion.)

[Jim Graves]

O.K., here's one of the Liberals (with a capital L) chiming in ... no one has suggested that this is not a private forum ... no one has suggested that this is not a Large Format forum ... THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!!! Let me say that one more time ... THAT IS NOT THE POINT (excuse the yelling.)

What is the point, is that this is a community of Large Format photographers (hopefully artists) that is promoted to discuss areas of interest. This Forum is successful only because of the interest and contributions of the members and will cease to exist if the members lose interest (no, this is not the owner's home.)

Until a short time ago, this forum included an unmoderated area for the discussion of whatever was topical or of general interest (The Lounge.) It was well attended and generated a lot of interest and controversy. I, for one, always read it but seldom posted. No one was required to read it or participate in it. If was objectionable to any user for ANY reason, they could simply ignore it.

The Forum has been removed by "The Moderator Team." The reason given: "[O]ur experiment with an unmoderated, any-topic-goes Lounge has largely failed. After a lot of discussion among the moderators, we've concluded that it is in the best long-term interest of the forum to 'outlaw' discussions of politics and religion, either as thread starters or within posts/responses, anywhere on the forum, including the Lounge."

There was never any explanation of how or why it "failed." In fact, it's an easy argument that it was only canceled because it did not fail ... it generated exactly what you would expect from an unmoderated general topic forum ... what did they expect? The owner of the forum and the moderators have failed to provide an explanation ... do they have any obligation to do so ... no ... do they appear the lesser for their failure ... yes.

In fact, the Lounge was topical, interesting, controversial, maddening, insulting, fun, etc., etc., etc. Which, I would submit, is precisely what you would want in a forum. Not only that, but because everybody pretty much knows everybody else on this forum, it was basically self-policing.

What is SO rankling to many of us is that a few who, for some reason, are uncomfortable with the self-expression of others, are allowed to set a community standard that denies an important and enjoyable outlet to the rest of us ... even though they are truly unaffected by it. And, when it appears that that few includes the owner and moderators of a forum that is important to us, it is worrisome.

In all, it is too bad and a loss for all of us ... even for those who do not agree ... because there may come a time when they will have issues that they feel need airing and they will have no comfortable place to air them among colleagues.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Maybe it's the libertarian in me, but I always treated speech I didn't like as well, just walk away form it. If there was something I didn't like in the forum, I just ignored it. Just like soap operas on TV, I cannot stand them, so I never turn them on.

personally I like the idea of a free-for all, but then personally, I hold no particular love for either conservatism or liberalism, so I was little or never insulted by most of what I read.

The world is changing fast, and it not only will, but does affect LF photography. As the world moves more digital, I see more and more value in LF of any size, shape, etc. I don't see how we can discuss that philosphically without occasionally moving into politics or religion at some point in time.

Warning - Ego mode = ON: For example, I will be in the local arts magazine (December issue) as "photographer of the month" and a big part of the reason was my large format camera work. Interestingly some of my best architectual pictures are of churches. Ego mode = Off.

The only "religion" debate I wish would die a quick death is the digital vs film one that keeps coming up. We all know digital is the spawn of the great evil one. Personally after shooting 10,000+ images with my DSLR since February, I have repented and "seen the light." My penance has been to buy a used 8x10 and move up from 4x5. The road will be long and hard, but I shall prevail on the side of wisdom, rightousness and justice in the long run.