Piezography: Ansel Adams and the inkjet print

[tim atherton]

Wow - you mean Ansel didn't use an enlarger..? How did he do that then. Did he generate his own light, god that he is?

And does it matter who did the printing? or does it have to be the photographer himself?

Or does it only become art if the manipulation is done in the 1-2 minutes the print is being made? Using what 50c or $1 worth of paper, a few more pennies worth of chemicals and a about 5c worth of electricity... gee that's an awful lot of technology there too.

Just as much human skill goes into making a great digital print (and I have seen some) as into a silver or platinum print. It's just that there are very few people out there with that level of skill.

Tim A

[Micah Marty]

If a handmade print of the "Moonrise" negative laboriously printed by George DeWolfe (or, more likely, John Sexton) is indistinguishable from a handmade print by Ansel, why is the former "worthless" and the latter extremely valuable? Probably because you're actually paying for the artist's name (and time) rather than the quality of the physical object (quality which is, to repeat, identical between the two options given). But that brings us precisely to why people like Andreas Gursky can sell computer-printed photographs for $150,000-plus (far higher than Moonrises go for) even when they didn't do ANY of the work involved in creating the print: because buyers care more about the name of the creator (and the conception of the image) than about the actual quality of the object (cf. "vintage prints"--I don't know any photographers who think their prints were better 10 or 20 years earlier, yet any famous photographer's older prints almost invariably sell for more than recent ones do).

I'm playing devil's advocate here--as a b&w darkroom veteran I like to think all that toil is worth SOMETHING--but I'm also asking whether perhaps some of the old categories no longer apply in an era when even experts with a microscope cannot tell the difference between various prints of an artist's work. I think a lot of us in this forum think (or at least hope) there will always be a discerning public willing to pay a bit more for handmade darkroom silver prints. I just wonder if developments like Piezography (i.e., developments which make possible prints approaching the appearance of silver and platinum prints) are more likely to increase the size of that connoisseur public or drastically reduce it.

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[Richard A. Johnson]

Micah - Very interesting post. I attended the Calumet Master classes workshop Three weeks ago for the Dan Burkholder Enlarged Digital Negs. workshop. George Dewolfs Images were hanging on the wall of the gallery with examples from other Master Photographers past and present.( Adams, Westons, Strand )you name them, their images were there for us to see. George Dewolf was running his workshop the following week. Micah THE IMAGES WERE O-U-T S-T-A-N-D-I-N-G. I took every opportunity to look at his work up close and personal ( and I do Mean close ) each day of the workshop I had never seen anything like them before. I have been a black & White printer for 32 years,I've seen a lot of good and bad work these were very very impressive. Also a fellow classmate from England who was taking Dewolfs workshop the following week showed me some of his work also, ( IN INK ) we traded images. It has change my hole out look about the printing process. I have been tring to made prints on my epson 1280, I am waiting for Cone to make solfware and inks for my printer in black & white, and when that happens I'll give you one hint as to what I'm going to do. It's the IMAGE that counts not whether It's silver or Ink. In respones to the ink or silver question of your post Ink has been around alot longer than silver-THINK ABOUT THAT folks.

[David A. Goldfarb]

At one of the recent Atget exhibits in New York I saw an Iris print hanging among Atget's original albumen prints and a few modern prints from the Chicago Albumen Works. The Iris print was a great print, but it didn't look like an albumen print--more like a really nice gum bichromate print. I think the difference came from the effect of spraying ink on paper, as opposed to emulsion floated on a surface. The ink just had different reflective properties and produced a different kind of line.

Inkjet processes might be very good processes and could even have excellent archival properties, but I don't see one process replacing another, just as silver is not a replacement for platinum, gum bichromate, Vandyke, or cyanotype. I would suspect that most of us would not see one type of BW paper as a reasonable substitute for another type of BW paper, let alone a particular inkjet process for all traditional processes. They each have their own look.

[Michael Chmilar]

Readers who live on the left coast should think about attending the "West Coast Piezography Summit 2001" at West Coast Imaging in Oakhurst, CA, on August 4. Look at www.westcoastimaging.com for details.

I have been using Piezography on an Epson 1160 for a couple of months. I can easily make superior prints to my "wet" darkroom work (but I don't claim to have any great skill at "wet" work).

I look forward to seeing some "master" Piezography prints.

My next project, to create "high value" prints of great "artistic" merit, is to produce prints using only fluids and materials from my own body. No mere $.05 worth of ink, $1.00 of chemicals, or $.25 of paper. These prints will be worth $MILLIONS! (Of course, they will be banned from display in New York, but that can only add to the value.)

[Chris Partti]

The idea of digital B&W printing is intriguing, but even if potential image quality and permanence of Piezography prints has matched silver, there are still a lot of issues for someone, like myself, who has no experience with digital photography.

For example, what capital outlay is required to get started? I'm not sure what equipment is needed, but presumably (1) a scanner (I know that I can have scans made, but the cost is really high); (2) a computer capable of handling the image editing (I have a PC, of course, but I don't know whether it has the required processing speed and memory), (3) Photoshop (costs as much or more than a good used enlarger); (4) a printer that can be dedicated to B&W printing; (5) the Piezography kit. My impression is that the initial investment here could go into the many thousands of dollars. In contrast, my initial investment to set up a wet darkroom was under $1000.

Then there is the question of obsolescence. When I bought my enlarger, I figured that it was an investment in a piece of equipment that would last for many years, maybe decades. My impression is that digitally-based photographers replace expensive equipment and software virtually constantly. Given the rapid improvement of digital hardware and software, there is also always the conundrum of whether to buy now or wait for the improvements that are bound to come in six months (probably at lower cost). Looking at the list above, this might be particularly applicable to the decision to purchase a film scanner--I gather that affordable scanners (especially for larger film formats) are currently the weak link in the home digital imaging chain. But that means that if I took the "digital plunge" now, I would have to spend $80 or so per scan while waiting for affordable, high-quality scanners to come on market.

Finally (unless there are other problems I haven't thought of), there is the issue of the learning curve. It's hard to know what is really involved because all the information I have found on Piezography seems to assume a working knowledge of digital imaging. But it looks like I need to learn how to do scans, Photoshop, basic inkjet printing, and the particulars of Piezography.

It's all a bit daunting. I would really like to try digital printing, but it looks like the startup costs (in terms of both dollars and time) are prohibitive. I'd love to hear from anyone who has taken this on that it is simpler, easier, and cheaper than it appears.

[David F. Stein]

Chris Jordan, you have a great argument. We are in the early stages of inkjet printing, where the printer is being used as a printing press. Why don't we take our "best" andhave it printed as a quality laser-scanned offset lithograph. Everyone is feeling their way through this and, yes, I don't think pushing a button 50 times to get 50 prints is the best use of a desktop printer. Still, each "print" has a smuch validity to me as what we do in the darkroom.

The conventional photograph, no matter how glorious it can be, is also just a photo-mechanical reproduction. A series of the same image is no more real because we struggled to get each one the best we could-and many are trying to replicate images here for "series." (Including at times I imagine bulk processing prints.) The best marriage of digital and traditional I know of is the LensWork Quarterly Special Editions-a scanned master print that is then contact printed on fiber base paper, selenium toned, etc. To me, 10 of those have no less value than 10 prints done "all handmade" under the enlarger. I know this is counter to what photography has been fighting for all these many years, but it is the way I see it. A single painting is different from 10 drypoints that were indiviudally inked and pulled is MUCH different from printing the same negative over and over-only stopping for a series.

If we wish to replicate a photograph with inkjet printing that is fine and most of my work is stuck there. Instead, think in terms of ink on paper and explore it for what it can create. Then, we'll stop arguing about photograph vs. inkjet. Note: I just received some 11x14 photographs from a friend that blew me away in quality. I can't equal them on my injet printer bu

[Micah Marty]

Chris Patti raises some great points about cost and obsolescence. I know I could only justify the expense of Piezo if I were selling prints, and even then I would let a service bureau absorb the capital costs, not me ($100K+ for the drum scanner, $4K for the Epson 7000, $2500 for the Piezo kit, plus paper, ink, RAM, etc.). Otherwise, as Chris P. suggests, it could be a bottomless pit--you buy the top-of-the-line printer and a few months later there's one that's twice as fast, with higher resolution, etc. Yes, the cost per print might be higher if I pay a service bureau to make the prints than if I owned the equipment, but then too they can amortize the capital costs over a larger pool of clients than I can (and I suspect my personal "cost per print" calculations might not fully account for hidden costs like saving up for the next printer I'd have to buy).

For proofing, file, and pre-press needs I'm plenty happy with contact prints and my enlarger; low tech, low investment. But if I were selling prints in any quantity and didn't want to spend a lot of time fussing over them (in the darkroom or on the computer) AND didn't want to invest my life savings in soon-to-be-obsolete digital gear, I'd pay a service bureau (like westcoastimaging.com) to both scan my negs and print them.

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[Dick Clark]

To all - I saw and was wondering the same thing as West Coast Imaging offers these prints. One factor that makes be balk is the price, equal or more than what the best custom printers will charge for traditional (from my limited experience anyway). Also there appears to be a maximum size on these prints, maybe 20 some inches on one dimention.

However ... one advantage of this process, and for all the digital stuff, is that the dust isn't an issue. It's exceedingly difficult, short of having a micro chip clean room set up, to get dust free negatives, and the dust ALWAYS migrates to the place to where it can do the most damage. I've had no experience with print spotting, but suspect it is a last ditch, less than perfect, effort to save a print.

So I'm thinking these P. prints maybe worth checking out for my negs that are flawed with dust.

And has anyone tried B&W printed onto fuji crystal archive via a light jet printer? Would this be a viable option for the right image?

Regards,

T

[mark lindsey]

my main problem with this concept ( and i use computers for advertising work extensively) is the sad loss of the evolution of the printing process. I went to the chicago museum of art and held a moonrise printed in the 80's in one hand and a moonrise printed in the 40's or 50's in the other---what an educational experience. all this will be lost, not only for the viewer but also for the photographer who never advances the quality of a particular image past the initial printing or the pressing of a button. how sad