Stability Comparison btw Chamonix and Metal Fields?

[paul08]

Hi all. I've been a long-time occasional reader here at LFPF but only recently registered. I'm currently working on a project where access is sometimes an issue (this means I'm carrying my camera and tripod a lot), and decided a couple of months ago to pick up a second field camera so that I can use all my lenses (I've had a nice Pressman D since the mid-'90s but the lensboards won't allow me to use my 210mm, and the Nikkor M 300mm really pushes the limits of the extension). I got a Toyo 45A off Ebay but it arrived with a trashed bellows (the seller, who seems to deal in a lot of LF gear said it had seen "very little use".... ?!). So now I'm stuck in Paypal dispute limbo and back to square one on the field camera (going forward on the work with my monorail, though).

I've read (mostly here) that the Chamonix 4x5 is more stable than the average wood field camera, and was wondering if anyone could compare its stability in real-world use with the Toyo or metal Wista. The wood fields I've used (borrowed or just checked out--inclu. a Zone VI and a Shen Hao) have seemed a bit delicate when extended. Is the Chamonix a lot better with the carbon base? I need to work in the wind and rain sometimes, so stability is a big plus. Thanks in advance,
Paul

[Gem Singer]

You need a lightweight portable camera that is stable at longer bellows extensions and can withstand rainy and windy conditions.

Check out the Canham DLC45 and the 4X5 Walker Titan. Although they are not wooden cameras, they are compact and light weight. Either one should fit your needs.

Call Jim, at Midwest. He can usually locate a good useable pre-owned camera at a reasonable price.

Last resort--check the eBay listings.

[Len Middleton]

Paul,

At 300mm, you are looking at some long lenses for 4x5, so you have essentially two issues: Getting a field camera with a long enough bellows for the length of lenses and how close you want to focus; and how stable it will be at full extension.

With your monorail, what is the typically maximum extension you use?

I use a Technika V and at it full extension (16") it is relatively solid. With a 355mm Repro-Claron (relatively light and compact lens), I can focus to about 10 feet.

The limitation with the Technika are: the size (diameter) of lens that will mount on the boards; the use of short lenses (less than 75mm); the weight (stability has a price in terms of weight); and of course the cost of the camera itself. I do not know whether prices are going up or down on them, but typically more used than a similar wood field.

Hope that is helpful,

Len

[paul08]

Thanks for the replies. I'm familiar with the Canham, and have seen pictures of the Walker (never handled one, though). I'm a little hesitant to spend too much for what may be 10-20% of this body of work, supplementing my Cambo (it's mostly architectural in nature, and I'm usually focusing in the 50-100' range, although a couple of detail pictures have been closer). In addition to the Toyos, I've noticed a few Horseman HDs on the 'bay for pretty low prices, but the bellows aren't long enough for the 300mm. I've emailed with Jim Andraki in the past but don't see anything other than a Toyo A listed at the moment. I will probably have to wait and see how this Ebay fiasco turns out (now the seller's wife says he wants me to return the camera before they will issue a refund, but given what I've been through with him (he claimed to have shipped the camera 2 1/2 weeks prior to the actual recorded shipping date on the EMS form, in addition to the mis-description of condition), I'm hesitant to trust him).

One nice thing about the Chamonix is it's cost new is in the ballpark for a used Toyo or older Wista, and I've got some lensboards laying around from my old Tech IV (which I really wish I'd kept, right about now! ). I would still like to hear from someone with both a metal-bodied field camera and the Chamonix, since it's price and movement capabilities make it attractive, at least on paper.

[Ed Richards]

Cannot help you with the Chamonix, but I did wrestle the stablity question a while back. One thing I thought about is that if you are carrying an umbrella to deal with wind and rain, then stability is less of an issue, and if you are not, then even a monrail will blow around.

[paul08]

Thanks, Ed. I do occasionally use a beach umbrella, although more often just a plastic bag.

Cannot help you with the Chamonix, but I did wrestle the stablity question a while back. One thing I thought about is that if you are carrying an umbrella to deal with wind and rain, then stability is less of an issue, and if you are not, then even a monrail will blow around.

[Bob Salomon]

Paul,

...the use of short lenses (less than 75mm);
Len

It is also incorrect.

With the Auxiliary Wide Angle Focus Device (now discontinued) or the current 65 to 55mm lenses on wide angle lensboards with the required helical mount the Technika IV, V and Master can use lenses down to 55mm. On the Technika 2000 (discontinued) and the current 3000 you can use lenses as short as 35mm with no accesorry required other then a lens board.

[Drew Wiley]

Haven't handled a Chamonix yet, but my little Ebony RW45 is rock solid even with a
360A. Chamonix appears to have a little less extension and might need an extended
board for something that long at closer range. With any field 4X5 beware of #3 shutters and the heavy lenses that typically accompany them. None of these folding
cameras seem as stable as my old Sinar monorail, however, which easily handled much
longer lenses, as well as relatively heavy ones, like a 120 Super Angulon with center filter attached. The Toyo 45 is just too limited for my own use, and the metal Canham
relies on CNC cut aluminum parts which aren't going to take the wear and tear like the
die-cast past on venerable cameras like the Sinar and Technika.

[Len Middleton]

Bob,

You of course know the product line better than I.

However, my comment was it was an "issue" for the Technika (particularly my "V"), not that it was not possible (semantics?).

I was aware of the "Auxiliary Wide Angle Focus Device", which even on the used market costs close to the amount for a lens to mount into it. I was not aware of using of the helical focus mounts for that use, and thank you for that information.

In the past when I had a Technika IV and the 75mm was too far into the body to perform enough front rise, I purchased a Karden Super Color with a Technika board adapter to solve that problem. If I had those requirements again, it would seem to be a suitable option again given the price of used 4x5 Kardens.

I have really enjoyed my Technika's over the years, but I do understand and accept that like all designs there are limitations and compromises, including potentially cost benefit issues.

I stand by my comments, but Bob does provide potential solutions to address those issues I identified.

Thank you for the additional information and clarification,

Len

[Gem Singer]

Keith Canham uses black anodized aircraft aluminum in the construction of his cameras. It is light weight and hardened to increase it's strength. Cast aluminum is heavier and brittle. I've seen a few monorail cameras where the cast aluminum parts cracked under stress.

He also uses Delrin washers between the metal parts where they are placed under stress. Example: the "T" knobs for tightening front rise and rear tilt. If those washers fail, they can easily be replaced.

Emailing Jim, at Midwest is an exercise in futility. Getting him on the phone takes a bit of persistence. However, it's worthwhile. Jim doesn't always list an item for sale on the website. When he knows that you're a serious buyer and knows your price range, he makes a few phone calls and usually comes up with just what you need.

I realize that price is an issue here, but just might be worthwhile to spend a little more and avoid another eBay hassle.