Talk to me about Linux...

[sparq]

Windows, even Vista, was not designed with this in mind. Microsoft has published an "applet" which purports to fill this gap, but I was unable to get it to work on my XP machine when I tried it. As I have said often enough, the Mac is designed by design professionals, for design professionals.

Ken, I have a Win XP laptop with a basic video card; and my two screens (LCD + external LCD) are both calibrated with Spyder2Express plus some tools that were needed for renaming color profiles. The system needs a reboot once in a while (the color profiles fail to get restored/updated after stand-by mode; this must be a flaw in the video driver), but this setup works fairly well for my basic requirements.

[Ken Lee]

So you have two separate profiles, one for each monitor, and you can maintain them independently ?

That's good to hear, and I am glad to stand corrected !

[Clyde Rogers]

Games? Running in wine, on top of Linux? On a few years old PC that has flaky hardware? I suppose it would give the kids an opportunity to share your frustration...no, please, just don't go there. The price of a wii or xbox will seem small compared to the years of harassment your children can (and should) inflict upon you as they reminisce about the gift of the broken PC.

If you don't want a new laptop, get the old computer fixed. Don't worry if it is too much to spend on an old computer, it still should be far cheaper than a replacement.

If it isn't far cheaper, then replace it. For a person with specific needs, or who wants a computer hobby (or who already knows a lot about Unix), Linux is great. For typical end users (this sounds like your situation), get a Mac or PC. My personal preference is a Mac.

Don't spend more than you're comfortable with, but don't get less than you need.

Later,

Clyde

[Jiri Vasina]

Clyde, Linux has made a great progress towards more user-friendly environment. It's not perfect, but you don't need deep understanding of the command line and other computer related areas. It certainly helps, but distributions like Ubuntu can be installed and used by most users.

But yes, for anyone who just wants the computer to work without anything else, Mac seems to be the best solution.

[Clyde Rogers]

Hi Jiri,

I agree that Linux has improved greatly, and agree that it is possible for a non-expert with specific needs to use a Linux system productively. If your needs are well supported by open source (and your distribution), you should be fine. If not, an ordinary user might just run into a brick wall.

As nice as the Gimp is, I'd much rather use PhotoShop, and I would not be even slightly interested in running it under Wine (it exhibits some strange behaviors there, and seems poorly tested). Games under Wine seem to have low frame rates, and often require bizzare video configuration options to achieve them. Hobbyist territory.

For a general-purpose internet/utility system with both some gaps and some outstanding applications, Linux is certainly a system worth considering, even for an ordinary user. It just doesn't sound good to me for what Scott is talking about.

Until later,

Clyde

[Jiri Vasina]

Yes Clyde, I also think Gimp is not on par with Photoshop. It might be in the hobby-photographer (advanced amateur) territory in a few years, but not now. Especially if it will support 16bit per channel (or the Cinepaint version)...

[sparq]

Only geeks torture themselves by running Linux on desktop. The rest of us leave Linux for servers and enjoy the comfort of Win/OSX (office) desktop apps.

If you see BSOD a lot, chances are it is the (exotic?) HW giving you trouble, and Linux won't be of much help then. Sometimes good cleaning of your winstallation helps. If you can not stand windows any more, get OSX.

[Kuzano]

So, I will only add my points simply:

Regarding BSOD's:
I have been working on PCs and software for 15 years. I will say that the incidence of BSOD's I have seen on the current mature and stable Windows XP, have only been due to sketchy hardware, RAM, and Hard Drives going south. They will all give months of BSOD's before failure. In addition, what some referred to as exotic hardware... special gaming video, over-clocking CPU's , etc. Rarely in this day is a BSOD coming solely from Windows XP until hardware flaws have corrupted it. My last personal BSOD's were on a laptop starting to have read/write failures about two months ago... The last time before that (and on any clients machines)..... Gosh, how long has it been? you need new hardware.

Regarding Linux/Unix and other Open Software systems:
Linux/Unix are too far outside the mainstream for average users who want to stay average users. I agree on using Unix/Linus often for servers, but it's purely Geek City. I have 2 linux systems and am strongly in favor of Ubuntu for various reasons. However, I NEVER would put a customer or client into those Operating Systems unless they had my skill level... Why?
I don't want to get the calls when someone has to go hunting for a fairly mainstream (windows-wise) driver for many mainstream components.
Linux/unix will force you into the fraternity of GEEKdom, or turn over lots of money to someone who is a veteran GEEK. I am!

Regarding the two best Windows choices at the moment IMO:
Windows XP with all the updates and patches including SP3. The support life of Windows XP is now extended to the year 2014 to cover the massive failings of Windows Vista in the market---particularly on less than duo and quad core processors and supporting hardware. Intel pushed the multi-core processors to market in order to allow Microsoft to get Vista to market. (Long and technical story).
The second option on windows (stand back from flames) is Windows 2000 Professional, which is lean and mean, and has support still. It's about 40% of the code lines of XP. It's rock solid, but I use it only on purpose built computers, that are never going to be used for media, gaming or on the Internet. If I were going to build a single purpose computer with the best OS platform for Photoshop, it would be on Windows 2000 Pro and not be hooked to the internet. This by that configuration would be relatively inexpensive for doing just that one job... Photoshop!

Regarding Vista.... :
Short and succinct.... There are only two types of Vista users. Those who absolutely hate the OS, and those who are going to learn to hate it in the very near future.

Regarding Apple/Mac
Probably your best choice from a reliability and imaging standpoint.

Regarding games on computers:
Just don't do IT! The game market is owned by dedicated gaming devices. And, as one person pointed out. If you try to use sketchy hardware, the $$$$ spent to make that machine run right with the exotic hardware required will involve a second mortgage on the homestead. My personal rule on gaming PC's.... I don't build em, and I don't let anyone put one on my workbench. Verbotten!

Regarding using laptops for work and photo editing:
Only if mobility is required. Laptops run hot and are designed to reduce performance of the processor down when they reach certain operating temperatures. My formula for using a laptop for production.... the end result on performance per dollar spent is about 50%. If you're not going to take it out of the house with great regularity, get the production value you spent the money for. No laptops unless travelling or taking to and from work/school every day.

The harsh reality is, that for the average computer user, who does not want to become intimately involved with computer hardware and software, the two choices in the real world are only offered by Microsoft and Apple. Everything else is just as much as a Crap Shoot as Windows and not compatible with the vast majority of other computers and software in the world.

[linuxpng]

Ok, I've finally had my fill of the blue screen of death with XP. Heard nothing but bad about Vista. Have reinstalled two versions of XP to no avail. I'm done. I'm wanting to learn about Linux - anyone have it? Whatcha think? Any info about program compatibility between the platforms? Will my install of CS2 work?

Thanks for any opinions,
Scott

I'll toss my 2 cents here since I'm a RHCE, IT professional, and PC enthusiast. Linux is great... If you like to tinker. OSX is great...If you and Steve Jobs see eye to eye on what you want to do with your PC.

XP is great...if it doesn't come preloaded on a machine and you install it yourself (and your company doesn't have crappy drivers)

Vista is...not bad. It's the first Windows OS I actually paid for.

In short, if you have an extra pc you could try out linux (or even try it in virtual pc for free from MS). There are strong sides to all the major ones. I will echo if you are trying unix that ubuntu or kubuntu (the kde desktop environment version) are the most polished. You'd need WINE in order to run photoshop natively or you could try GIMP. Although as nice as it is, I think you'd be disappointed in GIMP.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Yes Clyde, I also think Gimp is not on par with Photoshop. It might be in the hobby-photographer (advanced amateur) territory in a few years, but not now. Especially if it will support 16bit per channel (or the Cinepaint version)...

Not only is it not on par with Photoshop, IMO, it's not on par with Photoshop elements or Corel's Paint Shop Pro either (the later, IMO, a sadly overlooked program by those who do not need or cannot afford the full Photoshop.)

I tried using GIMP, I wish GIMP was better, I have GIMP loaded up on both Linux and XP, but man, I just don't take to it.

I think the best answer to the original question at the start of this thread is take a long hard look at a Mac and see if it fits the bill. In a similar situation, I came this close "" to buying a Mac, and may still some day.

I do NOT agree that Linux is in the realm of the "hobbyist" at all. I have two old laptops with dead batteries that wouldn't fetch $100 combined on fleabay. But loaded with linux (Ubuntu) and programs like Open Office, they are productive machines now, and my two children each use one.

So if my kids can take to linux, what's the matter with the rest of you? Seriously, if you have an "older machine" ( and what's that nowadays in computer terms, more than 10 seconds after you get home from the store? ), then Linux is a great way to turn an "outdated" machine into something very productive, and save the landfills.