Are you making money with LF?

[Donald Miller]

As a long time commercially driven shooter, mostly ads, I long for the days when I priced film in square feet and a good job was shot on 8x10. Those days are gone now and where my freezer once contained cases of 4x5 and 8x10 trans a lonely box of 4x5 EPP shivers in silence. Do I make money on LF I wish!

I have always felt that the difference is poetry not technology. What sets one shooter apart makes one studio more successful relates more to image content than pixels or film grain.

To state that LF still rules is to ignore the fact that a great shooter with 6mp can crush a neophyte with a 4x5. To state that a DSLR cannot produce a good 30" print is to be ignorant of what makes a good 30" print. I say it's poetry not pixels.

But if we must digress into the technical to bolster egos and make ourselves seem smarter I guess we must.

The whole leica on a tripod with 25 asa film, please, I'll take a 1ds mk3 and the universe of creative possibilities it offers off the tripod in a heart beat.

The I need 125mp to equal 4x5, get real, I have scanned bucket loads of 4x5 on my flextight and my rule of thumb is as follows.

4x5 = 125-150 MB of scanned info before EPP film grain becomes an issue. My p45+ produces 112MB of info per 8bit capture. Damn close and if you make big prints and really look the 4x5 is a hair better in optimum conditions.

MF trans = 60-70 MB of info before film grain becomes an issue. My mk3s produce 60MB of info in a far more flexible system, no contest for me and my clients.

35mm, forget about it DSLR capture has buried it long ago.

I am surprised to see no mention of dynamic range. I have never in 30 years seen the kind of dynamic range produced by my P45+ it is a revolution in image capture. No film I have ever shot is in the same room, period.

Fire away folks, but I would love to see this thread ended by those who are still making money with LF and not a dissection of our differences by those who only hold to one train of thought

Shoot whatever you want just make sure the poetry is there.

Oh yeah, anybody wanna buy a couple 8x10 Kardan Masters and a half dozen T stopped Schneider APO lenses?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your actual experiences... this has provided a refreshing breath of reason in the midst of what too often is a highly biased and prejudiced viewpoint at the expense of rational thought.

[roteague]

35mm, forget about it DSLR capture has buried it long ago.

That is debatable, and depends upon your point of view. I have both a D200 and an F6. I always choose the F6 over the D200 -- and there are still professionals using 35mm. You can stick with a DSLR, I'll stick with my F6.

[jeffacme]

That is debatable, and depends upon your point of view. I have both a D200 and an F6. I always choose the F6 over the D200 -- and there are still professionals using 35mm. You can stick with a DSLR, I'll stick with my F6.

Hello Robert, You are responding to "my" rule of thumb so whatever works for you is great. But I will stick to the ongoing evolution of digital capture and what has kept my studio successful and my clients happy. My comments describe the path I have taken and in my market LF is rarely an option these days. I see the real culprit as time, there is just less of it in the process today not to mention the dwindling availability of E6 processing. I could setup a line but for me that would be a huge mistake, much more costly and less productive than the next MF digital back. I need to be out shooting, not training a new lab tech.

Thanks to David, Donald, and Gordon for your comments.

[jeffacme]

Wow even though I agree with Marko's comment I am absolutely astounded that all those posts have been deleted. Can you say censorship? Sorry but this is BS, I am out!

[sanking]

Wow even though I agree with Marko's comment I am absolutely astounded that all those posts have been deleted. Can you say censorship? Sorry but this is BS, I am out!

What do you expect when some members want to censure the comments of others?

Not backbone from the moderators I hope.

Sandy King

[jetcode]

this hostility has been brewing for quite awhile and certain members are prone to an elitist point of view which they are assured buys them the bandwidth to trash others freely

moderators are dealing with this appropriately and shouldn't have to deal with this at all however I am looking for a forum that celebrates photography not a forum that celebrates format

as far as the DSLR phobes ... well I do hope they find some peace of mind soon

[David Luttmann]

this hostility has been brewing for quite awhile and certain members are prone to an elitist point of view which they are assured buys them the bandwidth to trash others freely

moderators are dealing with this appropriately and shouldn't have to deal with this at all however I am looking for a forum that celebrates photography not a forum that celebrates format

as far as the DSLR phobes ... well I do hope they find some peace of mind soon

Banning a certain forum member would have made this thread perfectly fine. Unfortunately, rather than getting to the root of the problem.......

[sanking]

as far as the DSLR phobes ... well I do hope they find some peace of mind soon

And others should show more knowledge and understanding of the preference many of us still have for film. There is no doubt in my mind but that if I were a commercial photographer making my living from advertisements, portraits, wedding, glamor shots, etc. I would own and use a lot of high-end digital equipment. The business is competitive and one must do what they have to do to survive.

However, this is a LF forum, and most of use who reside here do not making our living in the commercial world, and we have chosen to use LF for one of several reasons, of which the most important is probably quality. And of the people who use LF cameras for quality reasons the great majority do primarily B&W. This certainly describes my own work. I chose LF because of great detail and tonal values that it gives.

But, it is not always possible to use a LF camera so many of us use smaller, more portable cameras for some of our work where it is not practical to use LF. I have chosen to work with the Mamiya 7II when the 5X7 view camera can not go. If I could buy a DSLR for under $10,000 that could match the Mamiya 7II in terms of quality in a large B&W print I would do so in a second. Now, others may find that some of the features of DSLR suit their needs, say the ability to do HDR work in scenes of great contrast, or the ability to take multiple shots and stitch, or the fidelity of the color, or just the instant gratification capturing the image. I understand these creative features and recognize their value but I don't personally need or want them, certainly not when the trade off is quality in terms of detail. I primarily want a negative with a lot of detail that will give me the capability to make a large monochrome print as close in quality as possible to what I get from my 5X7.

Sandy King

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Well put Sandy.

[David Luttmann]

I agree Sandy.

That isn't the issue though. For some people, utilizing some digital aspects of photography is important. We don’t need people with personal bias or an attack agenda to go after everyone that mentions digital printing, capture, processing, etc, etc just because they don’t like it. It is not up to them to police the forum and decide what is suitable and what isn’t. We don’t need to be told that we are stupid because we meter with a histogram from an LCD. Some of us are perfectly fine with integrating digital technology into part of our LF workflow.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with those who choose to print digitally, prefer to scan film for output, use the histogram on their LCD for metering, zoom in on an LCD digital back for focusing, discuss different inkjet papers, inksets and longevity, etc, etc. Unfortunately, there are a few individuals….one in particular….that destroys threads with that contain that information….even if the heading is digital. This is not open to interpretation as a simple review of the threads show exactly who causes the problems.

Rather than telling everyone they are wrong, stupid, etc, maybe it’s time for them to leave and let the rest us....those that can discuss topics without resorting to name calling and personal attacks at every opportunity.....enjoy discussing all the different aspects of LF photography and technique of capture and output.