Arca-Swiss Field 4x5 vs. Canham DLC

[Blumine]

I want to thank everybody for the input. After sleeping on all the comments last night, I have decided to get the Arca with micro orbix. I figure if I am going to do it, I might as well do it right. Seems everybody is happy with it.

I am a little curious about a couple of things I have read. I read that the telescoping rail is longer than the folding rail and can handle extension up to 450mm or so. Also would a bag bellows be necessary for W/A lenses. I use everything 47mm to 600mm T.

Sheldon I saw the camera you were selling here, the only thing that stopped me was I wanted the orbix, but it looks like a great camera.

Thanks again!.

Blumine

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

After sleeping on all the comments last night, I have decided to get the Arca with micro orbix.

I do not need to add any comments, being the happy user of a 6x9 plus the "field" 6x9-4x5" F-line A/S camera.
I'll just answer your questions :

I read that the telescoping rail is longer than the folding rail and can handle extension up to 450mm or so.

The standard folding rail for 4x5" is 300 mm (12") long.It folds in two equal halves.
The telesccopic rail is made of two 150mm (6") rails on a long (300mm) bracket.
The rule for A/S telescopic rails is simple : each half can extend out of the bracket by 50% of its lenths ; overall the rail can extend to 50% of its length. So a 300mm telescopic rail goes up to 450.
But the bracket is non foldable !
To carry the camera with the folding rail, you collapse the whole camera on the front half and fold the rear. You can keep a lens mounted on the board if necessary but be careful that the rear lens element cannot touch the ground glass when you slide the standards before packing. I have thought of some kind of a home-made wooden block as a safety spacer between function carriers to be absolutely sure that the lens deos not touch the GG in the backpack. Martin Vogt recommends for backpacking to leave all tigntenig screws loosen, I obey the rule but I try to be careful about the lens/GG colliding issue.

With the telescopic rail what some people do in order to be as compact as possible ist to collapse the camera on the front half rail and slide the whole assembly off the bracket.

In front (or at rear, but in front is slightly more convenient) of any rail you can if required screw-in an extension rail, two lengths are available : the short one, 15cm (6") and the long one, 25cm (10"). The extension rail is very fast to use. So it is designed for backpackers since it is very compact. So you can go up to a total rail of 300 + 250 = 550 mm (22") with the standard foldable rail.
I have the short 150mm extension rail plus the standard 300mm folding rail that allows up to 450 mm (18"). This is perfect for me, so far have not used in the field any lens longer than a 360 ; I have a 360 apo ronar which focuses fine with 450mm of rail plus a 360 tele arton which does not even need the extension rail.

Regarding the isssue about how long the focal lenght can be, one should keep in mind that the rear function carrier takes for itself some rail length off, about 4-5 cm, from what is actually useable for the bellows. Also you should be confortable for focusing on objects that are not at infinity, hence you need some extra rail length to properly focus. In other words if you have a 450mm rail, a 450 quasi-symmetric lens design is not actually useable, you'll need a telephoto. But this is a common rule to all view cameras.

Also would a bag bellows be necessary for W/A lenses. I use everything 47mm to 600mm T.
With the standard leather belows of the "field" version, you can probably focus with a 47mm ona flat lensboard but with very little movements. You can if you wish use a recessed board
If you go for the standard "square" version 141-141, then you'll probably require to swap the standard square belllows for the bag bellows in short focal lengths.

I wanted the orbix..
The orbix, be it the manual or the geared one, can be added to any F-line front standard, the price to pay for the parts plus labor is listed by A/S as a standard service to customers, but you have to send the format frame to Besançon, France. The US service company for A/S products, Precision Camera Works, does not do it.
I do not think that you have to send the function carrier, but this has to be confirmed.

[Sheldon N]

You should read this thread to help in your decision about which rail to use for the Arca. Note that I prefer the telescoping rail since it is lighter, sturdier, easier to use, and more compact (camera portion) when compared to a folding rail plus a extension rail.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=27514

The telescoping 30cm rail combined with the standard leather "field" bellows on the 110-141 camera allows for roughly 380mm of extension on the long end. I could get maybe a little more if I was willing to put some strain on the bellows.

Make SURE you get the 141mm size on the rear format frame, otherwise you are dealing with a different set of bellows with much less extension.

You would need to add a 50cm conical bellows ($500+) to get more extension. With the 30cm telescoping rail I think you can get about 425mm of physical extension which will *just* allow you to focus a Fuji-C 450mm lens at infinity. The next item you could add would be a 30cm rail segment ($150?). That would not take up any extra space in your pack, since you could keep the rail segment in the 30cm extension bracket and the camera on a 15cm rail segment. You would just slide the 30cm rail segment over to slide in the 15cm rail segment and camera. That would give you close to 600mm of extension.

I think the f/t/f length of the 600mm Nikkor Telephoto is 409mm and the Fuji 600mm telephoto is 383mm, so depending on which lens you have you may be able to get by with just the standard 30cm telescoping rail and standard bellows.

Regarding movemens and very wide lenses, you should be able to fully utilize the image circle of pretty much any wide lens with the standard leather field bellows on the 110-141 Arca. They are very flexibile and the ultrawides have a fairly small image circle. I would recommend a recessed board for the 47, but I know that you can easily use a 58XL on a flat board. You could focus the 47xl on a flat board with no problem, but a recessed board would allow greater movements.

[Frank Doering]

Blumine,

I bought the DLC to complement my F-line Arca Swiss. I take the DLC whenever I need to walk any distance. It's much lighter and smaller, and you can shoot much longer lenses without extra rails or bellows. The Arca setup gets quite a bit heavier and larger when you want to shoot lenses longer than 300mm. Convenience goes clearly to the Arca. But detents aren't crucial: they aren't really precise on ANY camera. If you want good parallelism, you need a double-mirror tool or something comparable. For lenses shorter than around 90mm, this makes a noticeable difference--even with the Arca. Lastly, the Arca has the Fresnel lens in front of the ground glass. This makes focusing off-center with wide angle lenses less precise.

[Steve Hamley]

I'll offer a different opinion, starting by saying that the Arca is everything its proponents say it is, but...

The Canham is a good camera concentrating on light weight and a wide range of lenses with few accessories. While I've never owned a DLC, I have owned the traditional 8x10 which I sold because of the rather unconventional controls, which I believe the DLC shares - lever locks, love 'em or hate 'em. The back was limber enough to make you wonder if it could take a sharp picture, but it did time and time again, as does my wobblier 8x20 Korona. Keith Canham stated that he's never had a complaint of lack of sharpness due to his design, and I believe him.

I handled the Arca at Quality Camera in Atlanta several years ago when deciding on my "upscale" 4x5 camera purchase. I made the trip after reading Dykinga's book. Jack makes a comment in the book to check the GG after every shot to make sure you've got the shot, which I thought an odd comment. After inspecting the Arca hands-on, the reason is apparent; the standards don't really lock. They do get hard to move, but if you try to tighten the knobs to lock the standards in the conventional sense, the focus will shift. Tom Westbrook confirmed this to me years ago by examining his. I didn't care for this, although you can certainly live with it.

I eventually bought an Ebony SV45U and have been happy with it. Before the flames begin, let qualify this by saying that I am a metal monorail fan, and the Arca is one of the best if not the best. But to duplicate the range of lenses the Ebony accomodates (like the Canham), the Arca system would weigh upwards of 8 pounds which is why some Arca owners have lighter field cameras (!). The Ebony is of course a field camera and makes compromises as all field cameras do. It is not as smooth or as rigid as an Arca, but has never failed to produce bitingly sharp photographs using 55mm to 450mm lenses with one bellows and is quite compact.

If weight and complexity is not an issue, go with the Arca. If you hike, camp, go for a field camera, or if money is no object, an Arca and a field camera.

In the end, you make your choices and pay your money.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[resummerfield]

......The next item you could add would be a 30cm rail segment ($150?). That would not take up any extra space in your pack, since you could keep the rail segment in the 30cm extension bracket and the camera on a 15cm rail segment. You would just slide the 30cm rail segment over to slide in the 15cm rail segment and camera. That would give you close to 600mm of extension......

That's exactly what I do. One reason the Arca system is so versatile.

[Arthur Nichols]

I own a DLC and have used it extensively for hiking in the mountains. I have regularly used a 16" lens on and have never noticed any loss of sharpness due to camera flex.
I don't find setup or break down overly fussy. Overall I like the camera and it is great for backpacking but there is one thing that I just do not like and this is the front base tilt. I also regularly use an 8x10 Deardorff and much prefer the axis tilt to base tilt on the front.
The DLC is hard to beat for back packing but you have to decided if you have the stamina for lugging around the heavier Arca. You won't be disappointed with either one.

[Blumine]

Thanks for the great help. I do some hiking, but never more than 4 or 5 miles at any one time, nor anything overnight. Before I bought the DLC, I borrowed a friend's Toyo 45 AII and very close in weight to the Arca-Swiss (at least the specs say so). So I doubt it will be any different.

I will definately get the 30cm telescoping rail. It sounds like it will cover all the normal lenses.

I emailed Jeff at Badger and am waiting for his response. If they have everything I am after I will order before the price increases next month.

Thanks again for the great advice!

Blumine

[evan clarke]

When I decided to replace my venerable Toyo 45A, still a fine and capable camera, I looked reasonably carefully at both the AS and Canham. I had always thought the AS was kind of cool.

I respect the opinions of Canham lovers but feel that if you're going to have only one 4x5 camera, the AS is the one. I played with Evan Clarke's AS at a Barnbaum workshop and fell in love, with the camera, not Evan (though he's a really nice guy). The Canham's with which I have played seemed just a bit wobbly and less rigid than the AS. I subsequently chose the AS Field, with the help of Rod Klukas and have been a happy camper ever since. The only thing I would change is that I would spring for the Orbix, which is nice but not absolutely necessary. I have had it for over two years and use it with lenses from 75 to 500. I expect that even if I win the lottery (which will be hard since I do not buy tickets), I'll keep the AS (though I'll get an Orbix front standard).

Good luck.

Eric

Definitely buy the Orbix at the outset if you want it, I bought my first new 4x5 without it because the camera was available and thought I could just bolt one on myself. I had to send the standard to Arca in Europe and it took a fair amount of time to retrofit. I wouldn't be without Orbix. One more thing, I would buy the full 141mm F metric over the field. My 141 is wonderfully compact and it takes a variety of accessories that you can't get for the 110mm front standard (lensboard adapters come to mind)..Evan Clarke

[marschp]

I will definately get the 30cm telescoping rail. It sounds like it will cover all the normal lenses.

Blumine

Just a note on the rail - I went for the 30cm collapsing rail + 15cm extension on the basis that when shooting wide it is possible to just use the short front segment of the collapsing rail - you leave the back section hanging down - that way it doesn't get in the way of the focusing cloth, loupe, or prevent you from getting in close to the ground glass.

I've been very happy with the Arca Swiss F since buying it 6 months ago. However, I did find that I needed to reverse the format holders so that all the knobs (focus, swing, rise, orbix tilt) are on the left hand side of the rail. Out of the box the focus knobs are on the right and the swing/tilt/orbix tilt/lock are on the left - this means that when focusing on the ground glass, if you hold the loupe with your right hand (like I do) you have to keep swapping back and forth as you go through the focusing process . With the format holders reversed its a much easier process, the only downside is that the horizontal level indicators now face inwards. I did a lot of research before buying my Arca and never saw this mentioned anywhere, so maybe I just focus differently to everybody else. Thought it was worth mentioning though.

Cheers. Paul