Tilt in an urban enviroment

[steve simmons]

using the back tilt and swing to create a more striking photograph.

He did not ask for a critique of the photo, just how movements might have helped in the situation at hand.

I don't remember him asking about exposure here either.

I will stop at this point because I sense this may go downhill with the win the argument at any cost attitude takng over.

If I'd chosen this shot I would do as I described. Doing so has worked for me for 30 years - both in my personal work and in my career as an architectural photographer where I had to do work under challenging circumstances day in and day out.


steve simmons

[jetcode]

::The Ground Glass is Truth::

that's a sweet gem to share ... thanks

[Lachlan 717]

First, can some of you lighten up? This forum is not a pissing contest. Opinions on technique are like the very photos that we capture - they're our way of seeing the world and none is "more" right, nor "more" wrong than any other. (Please excuse the tautology here; trying to make a point!!)

Now, to get back on track...

Ben, can I suggest that your first step once you have found a scene to shoot is to refer to a DOF chart for the specific lens that you are using? I have am Excel spreadsheet (that I have laminated) that not only shows the DOF for all available f-stops in half metre increments, but it also has the hyperfocal length highlighted for each f-stop.

By using this as my starting point, I am able to ascertain the limits of DOF before I even consider any movements. Many, many times, I find that using the hyperfocal reference points and/or selective focal distances is enough to cover my DOF needs.

The other benefit of this (initial) is the time I save setting a shot up.

Lachlan.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

using the back tilt and swing to create a more striking photograph.

He did not ask for a critique of the photo, just how movements might have helped in the situation at hand.

I don't remember him asking about exposure here either.

I will stop at this point because I sense this may go downhill with the win the argument at any cost attitude takng over.

If I'd chosen this shot I would do as I described. Doing so has worked for me for 30 years - both in my personal work and in my career as an architectural photographer where I had to do work under challenging circumstances day in and day out.


steve simmons

Well Steve, call me silly but I see no reason for using movements to increase dof other than to use a wider aperture.

I did not suggest you offer a critique, but suggestions that could possible improve the shot.

Perhaps I should illustrate my point.In this shot, just placing the camera and using only dof would have resulted on the ovens looking puny because of the wide angle and the fast receding vanishing point.



To improve on the image I used back tilt to give more presence to the stacks, I used back swing to prevent the line on the bottom of the stacks to recede too fast and I used front tilt to keep the cactuses on the lower left corner in focus. With these movements I was not only able to affect composition but dof as well and enabled me to shoot this at f/22 instead of f/45. This is the reason why I use a LF camera.

I find it ironic that you would complain about "winning at all costs" when it was you who jumped on Ralph Barker for offering a suggestion that was different than yours. Not only that, but you cathegorically stated that his way was cumbersome and prone to errors. I guess you don't want to "win at all costs" but none can disagree with you either....is this how this works?

As you say, the GG does not lie, and we should use this immediate feedback to learn how to use a VC to it's fullest advantage.

[Ben R]

Well, tried it today for real. What a nightmare. The alleyways are tiny, you have either tourists or kids under your feet at all times and with the focusing distances f45 seems to be a minimum.

Seriously though I've learnt that you can use a tripod if you're fast, very fast and that ducking under a darkcloth is a bad idea when your tripod blocks an entire alleyway that happens to be the main thoroughfare to the local elementary school!

I'm going to swop my big heavy and unweildy Gandolfi for a hand held LF solution (I'm not leaving that big 6X12 neg for anything smaller!) with rangefinder focus. If I can't use tilt or shift in these alleyways anyway then I'm hoping that rangefinder focusing with the advantage of the GG to apply rise/tilt using a flip up hood CG style will mean that I can work very fast with a smaller and more useable camera for doing so, handheld even. I still have my Cambo SC for the tough stuff.

Going to be doing some research but I'm damned if I'll be forced to use a DSLR when I'm going to be printing so big just because I need to work super fast! I did think of the Fuji GW690 but I think that I will find the DOF available to be limiting, ditto any of the 6X12 built in amera options, none have any type of close focusing.

I hope no one thinks I'm being a wimp!

[Lachlan 717]

[QUOTE=Ben R;344394]
I'm going to swop my big heavy and unweildy Gandolfi for a hand held LF solution (I'm not leaving that big 6X12 neg for anything smaller!) with rangefinder focus. If I can't use tilt or shift in these alleyways anyway then I'm hoping that rangefinder focusing with the advantage of the GG to apply rise/tilt using a flip up hood CG style will mean that I can work very fast with a smaller and more useable camera for doing so, handheld even.

Ben, certainly not a wimp; all of those bites to your ankles would put me off the shot!

Again, if you are going to use a rangefinder, know its hyperfocal focal distances for all f-stops. In that way, you can even pre-focus before you arrive at the location, use the rangefinder to frame the shot (remembering its parallax error!!) and shoot, knowing that you cannot get any more in DOF sharpness.

One final suggestion would be to look for Fotoman/Gaesori/DaYi et al 6x12 camera. As these have a helical focus system, it is again easy to use hyperfocal methods for quick shots...

Lachlan.

[Ben R]

Hi Lachlan!

I had a day of intense research yesterday! Had a look at the Fotoman and the Georsi cameras but was put off for a couple of reasons. The Fotoman looks very nice and the price is good but the Helical focusing looks anything but precise given that the markings are in 5 feet increments. I'm working in locations where the DOF is such that I can't see that being precise enough by a long stretch. A lot of my work is (technically) going to be pretty close up, heck most of these alleyways are only about a yard and a half wide, not great when a 135mm lens can't be focused closer than 2.4 meters.

I'm afraid the website for the georsi is so very bad that I can't admit to having confidence in their products. No documentation at all makes me rather nervous when I'll need to order seperate lens thingies, finders, etc.

Then I thought of getting a Graphic, I retain all the advantages of a VC but in a smaller and less unweildy package that can technically be used handheld or pretty fast on a tripod. I spent about 4 hours on this site researching it but when I went to ebay I saw a lovely little MPP mkVII in very good condition and after phoning the seller, I hit the 'Buy it Now' button at £250! I still need lensboards and probably an appropriate Cam but to be honest at that price I don't stand to lose much. Once I get it out here and set up with my Horseman 6X12 I'm hoping to really get moving on my project.

Anyone want a Gandolfi 4X5 L1? Great camera if you like that kind of thing, bit large and unweildy if you need to work super fast! I had swopped my Tachi for it when I needed a Graflok back. The previous owner chucked in a Cambo SC with it and I think I now understand why, using it is like wrestling bagpipes!

[Lachlan 717]

Ben,

Good luck with the new toy!

I've just moved away from a 617 Gaesori as it is too limited, both in function (fixed lens plane) and in size (needing separate nose cones is a crazy idea). Funnily enough, they used to make a bellows mount for the original 617, but told me that there was no demand for it, so disco'd it.

Anyway, as of last week, here is the new toy. Full movements, over 300mm/12" of bellows and many, many lens options. You can see a Gaesori roll film back at the rear of this camera. It also has a drop-down GG...

Lachlan

[Ben R]

What is it Lachlan? Looks nice.

[Lachlan 717]

It's just a custom-made job, built around a DaYi 6x17cm film back.

Just a very basic modification to the back to allow a new locking system to hold it in place.

I just couldn't face a non-movement camera any longer!!