shanghai and other cheap film ...

[Michael Kadillak]

Don has summarized it very well. HP5 does not work for me, and FP4 is too slow for ULF. J&C 400 was Adox, and I had a hell of a time dialing it in to my satisfaction and had size problems, I had to cut a little each time I used a sheet.

Can I make other films do what TMY does for me? Sure, but it might mean having to carry two emulsions, one for expansion and one for contraction. Adox does not expand well, at least well enough for pt/pd printing, etc.

TMY does all that I need it to do at all contrast ranges.

This current 12x20 deal places each sheet at $17, this is it for me. While Michael makes a good case for making a sacrifice and pony up the money, I have to agree with Domenico that Kodak in particular is pricing itself out of the bussiness. Last year I could get TMY 8x10 for $2.94 per sheet, this year is $4.39. I don't want to bash Kodak, I love their products, but there comes a time when brand loyalty cannot justify the expense.

And I hope like hell it is a very long time before additional price increases are necessary. Deductive reasoning would tell us that Kodak would not have spent over a million in R&D if it were not possible to recover it in a reasonable period of time. I bet a reasonable period of time is several years tops. Once this is off of the balance sheet they would be in better shape assuming film sales continue on trend. Clearly TMY(2) is also a boon for medium and small format shooters as well.

Cheers!

[buze]

Hmm I'm sorry to get back to the topic here...

I tried in 4x5 the ERA and the Shanghai. The ERA is worthless, the base is thin and the film has a curl to it... it also floats in the Paterson tank when developing. Didn't see any obvious defects in coating but I nust say I even gave up on it for pinhole.

The Shanghai (Blue box) is nothing short of fantastic. I shot several hundred sheets of it over the last years and never saw /any/ defect. The base is the same as FP4/TMax/HP5, the emulsion is perfectly smooth and it behaves pretty much exactly as the published reciprocity as FP4. Oh it also pushed pretty easily to 400.
My last order of Shanghai came in 'white' boxes, and it might be repackaged ERA -- I just don't know I haven't tried that particular film yet. If it's repackaged ERA, it's a great shame...

As far as Shanghai GP3 120 rolls, it's a totaly different ball game; that film is pretty much garbage. Consistent defects in coating, and a curliness that makes it unusable for pretty much any purpose. I even tried re-rolling it /backward/ (emulsion out) on the reel to dry, and the film is still acting more than a spring than anything else, even after a year pressed flat.
So if you scan it, you can always 'fix' the defects and make it work... if you manage to get any film flatness. Otherwise I think it's a good film to test your next acquisition for mechanical problems...

[Joseph O'Neil]

The only "off brand" film I used and liked was Forte Pan 400, which is now closed/no longer in production.

Specifically it had an extended red sensitivity that I liked, much like Tech Pan - another discontinued film. But my point is, the main reason I used that "off brand" was because it had something other films didn't.

As for the debate over the price of the new T-max - well at least you guys in the USA who are arguing about it *CAN* buy the stuff. Last I checked here locally, Kodak in Canada is still nada, nothing. Four hours drive from Rochester NY, and i cannot find the stuff in local camera stores, even by special order. Somebody go tell Clinton and Obama to go ahead and tear up the NAFTA agreement, because it ain't doing me any good here in Canada.

As for the quality of film - wait until you ruin a good shoot on a lousy film. did that once, never again. Thought I was saving money buy buying a box of cheap film. Every sheet had issues. Forget who/what it was - this was about ten years ago now.

What I learned was no matter how cheap film is, if it doesn't perform when you need it too, it ain't worth a penny. As this point, it's all HP5 or Tri-X.

So until either the new T-max 400 is sold here in Canada, or Ilford actually puts out Delta 400 in 4x5 again, or hell freezes over and the Leafs win the cup, i'll stick with quality I know.


joe

[D. Bryant]

So until either the new T-max 400 is sold here in Canada,
joe

So why don't you just order some from Badger Graphics?

Don Bryant

[Joseph O'Neil]

So why don't you just order some from Badger Graphics?
Don Bryant

Because last time I ordered film from the USA, I got charged duty on top of the regular sales taxes. Don't get me wrong, I ordered my Tachi and I've bought lenses and lens boards from Badger, and would do so again. Why I can bring in a camera or lens duty free from Badger and not Kodak film....totally mind boggling. After a while you just get too dman tired of constantly fighting the system.

The other reason too is the few camera stores here in Canada that carry traditional wet darkroom supplies and film are struggling, and frankly, I like to support the local guy whenever I can. Sure I could order from Badger and have them label the box a a used camera lens, but I've been buying my film and supplies from some of these guys for 25 years, and i want to see them around for another 25 years

It's nobody's fault here on this board, and you guys are all likely sick and tired of me ranting about it, but a local camera store 5 minute drive from where I am stocks Rodinal and Kentmere paper, both from Europe, and can even get brand new Berlebach wood tripods made in Germany in a heartbeat - in fact, they have one or two in stock usually, but cannot (so far) get in the new T-Max from a place that is four hours drive away....

Rate things are going, I'll likely see Shanghi film from China before the nex T-Max.

[D. Bryant]

Because last time I ordered film from the USA, I got charged duty on top of the regular sales taxes. Don't get me wrong, I ordered my Tachi and I've bought lenses and lens boards from Badger, and would do so again. Why I can bring in a camera or lens duty free from Badger and not Kodak film....totally mind boggling. After a while you just get too dman tired of constantly fighting the system.

The other reason too is the few camera stores here in Canada that carry traditional wet darkroom supplies and film are struggling, and frankly, I like to support the local guy whenever I can. Sure I could order from Badger and have them label the box a a used camera lens, but I've been buying my film and supplies from some of these guys for 25 years, and i want to see them around for another 25 years

It's nobody's fault here on this board, and you guys are all likely sick and tired of me ranting about it, but a local camera store 5 minute drive from where I am stocks Rodinal and Kentmere paper, both from Europe, and can even get brand new Berlebach wood tripods made in Germany in a heartbeat - in fact, they have one or two in stock usually, but cannot (so far) get in the new T-Max from a place that is four hours drive away....

Rate things are going, I'll likely see Shanghi film from China before the nex T-Max.

Call or e-mail Jeff at Badger Graphics and ask about the duty issue. US products are duty free to Canada.

As for supporting your local camera store I can understand your sentiment but not your logic. Either they can supply you or not. It doesn't sound like they are selling new TMAX 400 or they have a lot of old stock. And why would you drive 4 hours to purchase anything these days? The internet is my camera store of choice.

And just an FYI, I live in the Atlanta metro area and how many camera stores do you think carry TMAX 400 in sheet sizes (old or new)? Zero, nada, none. So if you want TMAX 400-2 it's there.

And as far as Rodinal goes, I'm not sure why anyone would want to use it as there are better developers to choose from.

Don Bryant

[Terence McDonagh]

I buy what I can afford at the time. Sometimes it's Ilford, sometimes it's Foma, sometimes it's an old stash of Kodak. If I'm going on a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation, I'll take the Ilford. For shots around NYC, I'll often use Foma.

In all honesty, I've never found a bad sheet of any of the film. But maybe I'm just not discerning enough (entirely possible)

I don't make a living at photography, so if the day came when the shot is ruined . . . such is life. That's why they invented beer.

Buy what you like. Buy what you can afford. Just buy SOMETHING, and keep some company alive. I'd live with a 24% defect rate so long as I could still buy/afford film. I'm too lazy to coat my own on anything other than a whimsical basis.

[Jim MacKenzie]

Because last time I ordered film from the USA, I got charged duty on top of the regular sales taxes. Don't get me wrong, I ordered my Tachi and I've bought lenses and lens boards from Badger, and would do so again. Why I can bring in a camera or lens duty free from Badger and not Kodak film....totally mind boggling. After a while you just get too dman tired of constantly fighting the system.

All film and camera gear is duty-free in Canada. On the back of the duty and tax calculation is an appeal form. Fill it out, send any needed documentation (e.g. if they calculated tax on the wrong value) and send it in.

The couple of times I've been charged duty or been charged taxes on the wrong value, I got a refund reasonably quickly.

[scott_6029]

I have had great luck with EFKE 7x17 and 8x10 and like the look for certain SBR and lighting situations. I shoot a lot and the cost does add up so I am somewhat sensitive to price. I have also shot several boxes of ERA 7x17 film and liked it and would purchase again.

For me on 7 x 17, I am more sensitive to price vs. 8 x 10... . The 7x17 EFKE and ERA is roughly $3+ a sheet vs. $6 + on up for Ilford, Kodak even more....($89 a box vs. $160+).

I did shoot the J and C 8x10 special discount film (really inexpensive film) and really liked the look too. Don't know what exactly this film was, but as suggested in an earlier post, it may be Shanghai film?

For 4x5 sheet film (not readyload), the total box price differential isn't that big of deal for the 'first tier' brands.

What I find interesting is that my $3 + 7 x 17 sheet film is about the same price as 4 x 5 readyloads!

[Filmnut]

I bought some Arista EDU Ultra 100 from Freestlye, and even with the shipping to Canada, it is a much better deal than anything else that is locally available. I have only shot about 5 sheets so far, but I like the results. Nice tonality, not too much grain. Processed in Xtol 1:1, 75 F. 9 mins, and looks about right, my system, of course, others would likely be different.
When I bought it, I specifically asked who made it, and the woman said that it was Foma.
I too have heard about quality control problems, which is the only thing that bothers me. Large format is such a large investment in time, money, effort, and expectations, I'd hate to loose some nice work due to bad film!
That said, I will continue to use this film, and if all goes well, buy some more!
Keith