Determining development time for scanner

[Scott Kathe]

I just got a 3010 Jobo expert drum with a Beseler motor base and developed a batch of negatives for the same time I use in trays. I lost all the highlight detail. I did a film speed test and that came out just as before so that was set correctly. I thought I shoot a snow scene while we still have it and put the snow at zone VIII, midtones at V and shadows at III. The light has been too contrasty, with snow at zone VIII the midtones are at III to V.

I thought about shooting some white posterboard in open shade, maybe 4 or 5 sheets, and place it at zone VIII and develop for a shorter time. I would look at the histogram and try to get it as white as possible without clipping the highlights. If highlights are clipped I'll do another sheet for shorter time till I zero in on a good time, if too far to the left-I'll develop longer. But since I'm shooting white should I place it at zone IX instead. Anyone figure out development time this way? Is there a better way to do it for use with a scanner?

Scott

[D. Bryant]

I just got a 3010 Jobo expert drum with a Beseler motor base and developed a batch of negatives for the same time I use in trays. I lost all the highlight detail. I did a film speed test and that came out just as before so that was set correctly. I thought I shoot a snow scene while we still have it and put the snow at zone VIII, midtones at V and shadows at III. The light has been too contrasty, with snow at zone VIII the midtones are at III to V.

I thought about shooting some white posterboard in open shade, maybe 4 or 5 sheets, and place it at zone VIII and develop for a shorter time. I would look at the histogram and try to get it as white as possible without clipping the highlights. If highlights are clipped I'll do another sheet for shorter time till I zero in on a good time, if too far to the left-I'll develop longer. But since I'm shooting white should I place it at zone IX instead. Anyone figure out development time this way? Is there a better way to do it for use with a scanner?

Scott

So what kind of scanner are you using?

Basically if you can produce a full scale negative that can print easily on Grade 2 papers then most modern flatbed scanners will be able scan those negatives easily. Actually they can be a little more contrasty than that and you will be okay. Just watch the highlight densities.

If you have a Stouffer's step tablet and scan it you can get an idea of the maximum film density that your scanner and software can handle.

Don Bryant

[Don Hutton]

Scott

On the motor base, you will be agitating considerably more than in trays. This will result in much higher contrast - shadows will be similar, but highlights will be much denser. You'll need to do some wholesale restesting, but I would guess that reducing development by at least 25% would be a good starting point. My choice for negatives for scanning is fairly thin (not under exposed; just accurately exposed with no extra density) and a little flat.

[Ron Marshall]

I use a Jobo 3006 with TMX, XTOL and have no problems with blocked highlights. These negs scan well.

[Scott Kathe]

Don (Bryant) the scanner is an epson 4990.

Don (Hutton) that Expert drum is the cat's meow (whatever the heck that means). From what I gathered here and on the web I thought with a 5 minute presoak in water on a roller base the consensus was the same amount of time in the drum as is trays. That certainly didn't work out for me. I was doing 9 minutes in trays so I think I'll try 7, 7 1/2, 8, 8 1/2 minutes in the drum.

Scott

[Don Hutton]

Scott

I'd try 6.15 and 7.30 from a 9.00 starting point.

[Scott Kathe]

ok Don, I'll give that a try.

Scott

[Brian Ellis]

Is there nothing in the scenes you're photographing except snow? If so then it makes some sense to place the snow on a particular zone by exposure as you mention. But usually there's other things in snow scenes that one would care about - trees, buildings, vehicles, people, whatever, but something that's important to the photograph and that's darker than the snow. In that situation the normal procedure would be to place the shadows - say the trunks of trees - on the zone you want by exposure, observe where the highlights will fall with that exposure, and then control the placement of the highlights with development (i.e. increase their density with plus development, decrease it with minus development, or leave it as is with normal development).

It's impossible to control the midtones with exposure or development, unless you care nothing at all about the highlights and the shadows. But that's a very rare situation. More commonly you control the shadows (exposure) and highlights (development) and the midtones will then just fall wherever they fall. And you certainly can't "put" the snow on Zone VIII, the midtones on Zone V, and the shadows on Zone III. You can only control two zones, one by exposure and one by development. Everything else in the photograph is just going to fall on whatever zone it falls once you've chosen your exposure and development time (which is why we dodge, burn, flash, etc.).

I don't know why you would place the highlights on Zone VIII and then develop for a shorter time. Developing for a shorter time would just bring Zone VIII down to Zone VII or VI. If that's where you want the highlights, why not just place them there to begin with by choosing an appropriate exposure? While that isn't the usual practice (because it may reduce the shadow density below what it would be if you had exposed for Zone VIII) presumably you care nothing about the shadows in this situation anyhow or you wouldn't be basing your exposure on the highlights in the first place.

My apologies if I'm telling you things you already know but when you mention placing midtones on a particular zone or placing the snow on a zone by exposing for that zone, I wasn't sure.

[Scott Kathe]

My apologies if I'm telling you things you already know but when you mention placing midtones on a particular zone or placing the snow on a zone by exposing for that zone, I wasn't sure.

Brian,

I realized I should expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights and let the midtones fall where ever they fall. My original post was misleading with respect to letting the midtones fall. I was trying to find a snow scene where there was only a 5 stop range of exposure where the snow was at zone VIII and the shadows at zone III. The thing is I had the perfect setting the other day but developed those negative too long and the light hasn't cooperated with me since.

I can't seem to find the correct light where I could put the shadows on zone III and the highlights on zone VIII according to my meter. I know I can control for placing the highlights with the development time but right now I'm trying to determine my development time for zone VIII where I have white texture. Once I figure out my time for zone VIII, I'll figure out the times for N-1, N+1 ...

Scott