Only lf stuff allowed in classifieds now ?

[David Crossley]

<The LF community is extremely varied in its interests. The forum, while maintaining its focus, should allow these diverse interests and not be a straight jacket or a true believers cult. It has managed fine up to this point (flourished since I have been here AAMOF) without over regulation.>


I'm with Kirk and others on this. This forum (for the most part)is a pretty honorable bunch and "classifieds" worked reasonably well prior to the lockout.



David Crossley/Crossley Photography....

[eddie]

i enjoy selling and buying here. i will follow what ever rules are in place. i generally only trade in LF gear anyway. i would not object to seeing some other film related stuff for sale but i know how that can get out of hand.

a few months ago i had some non LF gear for sale and after thinking about it i decided this was not the place for it and offered it at APUG and photo.net i just figured it was a LF site.

thanks for the classified section! i look at it everyday.....first!

eddie

[Tom Westbrook]

What prompted the clean up a couple of days ago was that I did a search for common MF manufacturer names and found about 6-7 posts dealing exclusively with MF items. All but Don's were from relatively new members. I didn't feel that deleting the other 5 and leaving Don's was quite fair or defensible given the written policy, but I only closed his thread initially (there was a note from someone I wasn't sure he had seen) and didn't delete it right away. He asked me to delete it later in the day and I did.

We only started allowing FS ads with the switch to the current Forum software, and that was May 2006. We did change the rules a little about two months ago to include the red text and the bit about it being private (so listings don't appear in search engines on the 'net). otherwise its been the same.

The description in August 2006 read:

An "at your own risk" area for posting for sale & wanted to buy ads for large format items. No references to active external ads or auctions, please. Please prefix posts to indicate intent: "WTB", "FS" , "FT" (for trade), etc. Posts scroll off after 30 days. No dealers, please.

While what exactly constitutes a large format item may be something of a gray area, Mamiya 7's or RB/Z 67's, Hasselblad's (but Arc body is debatable), Pentax 67's or Canon digitals, for that matter, do not qualify as LF in my book. I think allowing MF or other clearly non-LF ads from any member dilutes the intent of the site and creates a slippery-slope condition where we'll end up with anyone being able to post anything they want for sale here (if you disagree, define the defensible enforcement boundaries for me).

[David A. Goldfarb]

I don't believe that private internet forums such as this one need to follow the rule of law and could just as well govern on the basis of ethos rather than strictly defined rules.

A policy which extends more privileges to established members than to new members is defensible on the grounds that we know that the established members have an investment in the community and aren't spammers or commercial dealers with no interest other than sales. If an advertisement contributes positively to the ethos of community among LF photographers by virtue of the fact that it comes from an established community member, then it can be allowed. If it contributes negatively by virtue of being spam or from someone not known as a member of the community, then it seems reasonable to exclude it, until the poster makes a positive contribution to the community.

[Capocheny]

Henry - I have no issue with scanning services being offered in the FS section - thats where it belongs. However, the "softselling" is going on outside of the FS section in regular postings - which is strictly prohibited (and in my opinion, should be). But, it's one of the moderators posting it, so it never seems to get picked up....

Hi Don,

I'll have to revisit some of those threads... but it seems to me that it's usually other members talking about sending their materials in for scanning (or suggesting to others that they send their images in for scanning) as opposed to the moderator in question actually soliciting materials for his scanning service.

For example, I've read where a discussion may be going on about some aspect of scanning and a contributing member may say, "Send it in to this scanning service." And, someone else may pipe in and suggest sending it in to x-moderator instead/as well.

IMHO, anytime you're an expert in a subject and you get into a discussion about that area of your expertise, it's virtually impossible not to be soft-selling. People naturally will gravitate toward you for your advice/service.

I'm in marketing myself and find that no matter how subtle I may try to be... it's just the nature of the beast that, when speaking with people about my area of knowledge, eventually, if it's of interest to them, they usually follow up to see what I can do for them.

this gets into advertising services, selling magazines and prints, which are reoccurring sales, while selling a lens or camera is a single occurrence between two parties.

there could be a commercial section where member advertisers place a single ad for their services and no dialog takes place

Joe,

I don't disagree with you here... perhaps, a separate section may be appropriate and I won't speak for the moderators on this.

But, ANY time you convey information on YOUR specific area of expertise (written or spoken)... that's soft-selling. People intuit that you know what you're talking about and respect your knowledge and experience in that specific area. Therefore, they'll naturally gravitate to you for further information and/or services.

So, the moderator in question would essentially have to stop posting ANY comments in the open forum in order not to be soft-selling his area of expertise. That wouldn't be a logical thing to request and it would certainly deprive the members of a valuable resource.


Don, Joe,

I hope I'm being clear on my meaning here but... if not, please PM me and we'll discuss it more, ok?

Thanks

Cheers

[Marko]

I think allowing MF or other clearly non-LF ads from any member dilutes the intent of the site and creates a slippery-slope condition where we'll end up with anyone being able to post anything they want for sale here (if you disagree, define the defensible enforcement boundaries for me).

Tom,

As others have noted already, I think it would be rare and very focused individual who had an interest in only one type and format of photography. If the purpose of the site is to build a community, as this site seems to be doing quite nicely, then it would be only natural to have a water-cooler (The Lounge), the corkboard (Announcements) and the flea-market (FS) which should be rather lose about the content that goes.

Would you rather have your members build their ties and relationships on your board or on someone else's? Besides, if someone decides to sell their 35mm or MF gear in order to buy some LF stuff, it would serve the purpose of the board, wouldn't it?

And as I suggested a few months ago, perhaps a good way to build a balance between security and flexibility would be to institute a membership threshold for posting in any of those three areas, be it the past activity or the membership duration or some mix of both?

[Deane Johnson]

When you start limiting formats too strictly, where do you stop? Someone is advertising a 6X9 back for a view camera. That's MF. Do you allow it? Seems to me it's of considerable interest to some LF members.

Certainly individuals who sign up and in their first post list a bunch of 35mm digital stuff aren't appropriate. But then, can't moderators just judge when those are inappropriate and zap them without getting to overburdened with new rules? Too many rules kill things.

[B.S.Kumar]

I think we are smart enough to figure out that if we wanted a Nokia, Jim Galli might not be the best person to ask Being a little flexible about the rules would not necessarily open the floodgates.

There were some LF related posts from newcomers in the last few weeks. A couple of them generated quite a bit of interest because of the nature of the items and/or pricing. So maybe the membership duration thing might not be good. Perhaps new members could have their first ten posts approved by the moderators before appearing on the forum? I don't know whether this would be possible within the existing software. Being a Nikon F, Canon 10D, rollfilm, 4x5 and Betterlight user, I certainly would like to see all kinds of stuff for sale, as long as it's not a Nokia

And if I had bought something from a member here, I would be more willing to buy a Nokia from him - on another forum, of course

Cheers,
Kumar

[cotdt]

i would still rather buy a Nikon F from a member on this board than risk getting ripped off on eBay.

[JPlomley]

i would still rather buy a Nikon F from a member on this board than risk getting ripped off on eBay

And that is exactly why I bought my M6 from a reputable member on this forum