Jacques Henri Lartigue and his camera

**cowanw** · 4-Jan-2008, 09:18

There are the examples of similar effects that I was wondering about. And they are earlier than the famous one! Maybe, at the time, that type of photographic deformation was simply an expected appearance.
I am such a cynic
Regards
Bill

**Bill_1856** · 4-Jan-2008, 10:29

Originally Posted by Lindolfi

"Courses de voitures, Papa à 80 km/h, 1913", the passenger must have been his father. When the estimate of 80 km/h is correct, we can back calculate the travel time of the focal plane shutter, which would be about 0.07 sec at a vertical dimension of the plate of 90 mm and assuming an uncropped photograph.

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The 80 km/h could not possibly have been an accurate number. Only someone actually in the car would have known how fast it was going, and (as I recall) there were no speedometers in those days in racing cars. It's like the song, "She was flying down the mountain at 90 miles an hour, when the chain on her bicycle broke, etc...."

**Lindolfi** · 4-Jan-2008, 11:47

Yes Bill, that can not have been an accurate number. The only accurate number is the average velocity of the car on the photograph, which can be back calculated from the table on this site. The distance was 917.06 km and the average velocity of the number 6 car driven by Croquet 99.62 km/h. The real velocity at the time of exposure can not be known with any precision, you are absolutely right about that. We would know more if anyone comes up with an ICA camera of that type so that we could measure the travel time of the shutter.

cowanw, you are right about the abundance of photographs with deformed wheels from that period. Look here for instance.

**Struan Gray** · 4-Jan-2008, 14:14

I don't have my original fitting data anywhere, but it would be easy enough to reproduce, and I'm willing to eat a little humble pie if I have mis-remembered or simply had a brain fart.

But, I only have a literally postcard-sized image to scan, and I can't find a high-res version of the image anywhere online. If anyone has a large analogue image and would be willing to scan it (or simply has a higher-res file) I'd love to have it. If not, I'll go with the postcard, but it's a bit blocked up.

**Lindolfi** · 4-Jan-2008, 15:32

Struan, this may be the best one for sale in terms of size.

In my book "The Camera" produced by Times Life Publishers from 1971 on page 162 and 163 there is a large print, but the resolution is hardly better than the digital version I started this thread with. Besides, it is posterized into at most 4 grey levels.

In the large book put together by Avedon about the work of Lartigue, there is quite a good version, but again not a higher resolution. This suggests that the photograph itself was not very sharp, which makes it realistic to use lower resolution versions as material to fit curves on.

The white band on the tire appears to be simply the color of the tire: very light colored rubber, as can be seen from other photographs of the event. The dark soil is stuck on the profile of the tire. So that means that the light band is uneven, since it is not marked on it on purpose. That would mean that a fit to the edge of the steel rim would be a better thing to do. The outline of the tire is the result of the pencil of lines coming from the lens of the camera touching the 3D surface of the tire, so is more complex, else that would have been more accurate, being a large shape in the photograph.

Hope you get your fitting process running again, so I can see what it does, Struan.

PS This is the best I can come up with from where I am now: (click here)

**Bill_1856** · 4-Jan-2008, 15:51

This has been a terrific thread, Lindolfi -- you are wonderful. Are you a Baker Street Irregular in your spare time?
I've ordered "The Invention of an Artist," and look forward to reading more about the period.

**Ole Tjugen** · 4-Jan-2008, 22:27

There's an ICA Tudor Reflex on ebay now - HERE.

It's got a 210mm Xenar on it, but I don't know the plate size.

**Lindolfi** · 6-Jan-2008, 04:49

Thanks Ole.

The 3D reconstruction shows some more insights
First the situation seen from above. The dark lines indicate the view cone of the camera during exposure:

The situation seen from the camera during the exposure as though a video camera was used

The reconstruction using the moving slit of the focal plane shutter:

From this we can see the following:

1] The variation in thickness of the nearest hind tire (lower left part and upper right parts thicker) can be explained from the pursuit movement and the 3D shape of the tire

2] The left hind tire is less skew since there is less error in pursuit movement, since it is further away from the camera

3] Lartigue operated the shutter when the car was closest to him, but he was already following with his camera

4] The men in the car and steering wheel are the sharpest parts in the photograph, since he followed them, and not the closest hind wheel

**Lindolfi** · 7-Jan-2008, 05:19

Here's another version of the 3D view during exposure with the focal plane shutter slit moving over the scene, building up the image.

**Rob Logan** · 29-May-2013, 11:45

Originally Posted by Lindolfi

Here's another version of the 3D view during exposure with the focal plane shutter slit moving over the scene, building up the image.

I know this thread is quite old; however, I'm curious about about one possible problem. What is the chance that Lartigue's camera shutter moved from top to bottom as some camera experts argue? For example, this site: http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/tech/fp-shutter.html It suggests that Lartigue used a camera (1909 ICA Spiegelreflex-Künstlerkamera System Raupp) which has a focal plane shutter that opens from top down. If that is the case, wouldn't Lartigue have had to be panning from right to left, against the direction of the car? That would be the only way to explain the distortion in the shot.

Cheers!