Arca Swiss 110mm vs. 171mm Standards (weight difference)?

[audioexcels]

How much of a weight difference is there between these two standards, including the lensboard.

[Sheldon N]

I think its buried in the archives here, do a search for Arca Swiss Weight or grams or something to that effect and you should find it. I think Kerry Thalmann and Emmanuel Bigler were the sources.

[John Schneider]

Hi Mike, how's the Arca quest coming along? I should have my 4x10 back finished before Christmas; then I have to wait for Camera Bellows to do their thing.

This is all from memory, as I can't seem to find the thread(s) (may be over on apug somewhere).

Kerry settled on the 141mm front standard because you can adapt Linhof TK boards to it (the 110mm board is too small to hold the Linhof board at 96x99mm), and because the larger board gives you more options with using older brass lenses that may be too big for the 110mm standard. E.g., my wonderful but huge 14" Cooke Aviar will fit on a 141mm but not on a 110mm (not even close).

I also recall that Kerry felt that it was the decrease in bulk that was the main reason to move from the 171mm standard, not the weight difference, which as I recall was much smaller than I had expected. I'm going to stick with my 171mm system for now, as I have several bellows frames and can't afford to change standards right now. But, based upon my own investigations and Kerry's reasoned explanation, I would choose the 141mm over the 110mm.

[audioexcels]

Hi Guys,

Did my researching and between Emmanuel and Kerry, I could not come up with definitive figures on the weight side of things. Both had different numbers and it was rather difficult to understand the numbers Emmanual was giving for the smaller standard. It was clear that most of the weight is in the carriers, but I noticed Kerry's 171 vs. 110 lensboards was almost a 3X difference in weight. If this were so, it seems there could be about 1.5lbs difference with the 110mm frame and custom wood boards for it over the 110 type boards, though I will only be using 2-3 lenses max, so 110 boards could be found cheap enough to not have custom wood ones done.

141 size sounds awefully appealing, but awefully difficult to find used. Where could I find one of these?

Thanks again guys and it's great to hear the 4X10 is about ready for action!!!

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I'm sure the weights you seek are buried somewhere in those old threads, but it's probably worth re-listing them here.

The weights you're interested in are for the format frames - as the function carriers don't change with format. The 171mm format frames weigh 550g each and the 110mm format frames are 300g. So, the difference is 250g, or 8.8 oz.

These are the weights for the standard (non-metric) format frames without the optional Orbix front tilt.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Kerry settled on the 141mm front standard because you can adapt Linhof TK boards to it (the 110mm board is too small to hold the Linhof board at 96x99mm), and because the larger board gives you more options with using older brass lenses that may be too big for the 110mm standard. E.g., my wonderful but huge 14" Cooke Aviar will fit on a 141mm but not on a 110mm (not even close).

I also recall that Kerry felt that it was the decrease in bulk that was the main reason to move from the 171mm standard, not the weight difference, which as I recall was much smaller than I had expected. I'm going to stick with my 171mm system for now, as I have several bellows frames and can't afford to change standards right now. But, based upon my own investigations and Kerry's reasoned explanation, I would choose the 141mm over the 110mm.

Actually, I don't have any 141mm format frames on any of my ARCA-SWISS cameras. I wish I did, but by the time they came out I already had a huge investment in 171mm and 110mm format frames and bellows. It would cost a fortune to downsize my 171mm format frames to 141mm. The cost of the new format frames would only be a small part of the total cost. Replacing all those standard, long and wide angle bellows in both 4x5 and 8x10 - as well as the cutom bellows for my project cameras, would cost a king's ransom.

Specifically, for 8x10 and my 7x17 Franken-ARCA, I use a 171mm front format frame. It's actually an older ~1984 pre-monolith 171mm format frame with built in geared rise and geared axis tilt. If I want to save a little weight (12 oz.) I can substitute a standard F-Line 171mm format frame. For this size, I have 8x10 standard, long and wide angle bellows, plus the custom bellows for the 7x17 Franken-ARCA (and eventually, for a 14x17 Super Franken-ARCA - Son of Franken-ARCA?).

For my 4x10 and 4x5, I use a 110mm front standard. I originally had a standard F-Line 110mm format frame, but upgraded to a 110mm metric format frame with built-in micrometric Orbix. This gives me the same self-arresting geared front rise and geared axis tilt I have on the bigger cameras and only adds about 2 oz. to the weight. On the 4x5, I'm using a 171mm rear format frame. So, in this size, I have standard, long and leather wide angle 171/110 bellows, plus the custom bellows for the 4x10, as well as a special custom bellows I made for the 4x5.

So, that's nine sets of bellows. Plus, I use the 171/171 standard or long bellows as an add-on with a 171mm intermediate standard when I want to use really long lenses on 8x10 or 7x17 (and eventually 14x17).

So, as attractive as the 141mm format frames are (if I was starting my system today, I'd use them for the front of the 8x10/7x17 and the back of the 4x5), I'm pretty much locked into the 171mm and 110mm sizes.

Kerry

[Sheldon N]

141 size sounds awefully appealing, but awefully difficult to find used. Where could I find one of these?

I think they are a real tough thing to find used. You are likely only to find them attached to a current camera in relatively good condition. I've watched Arca Swiss stuff for about a year now and I think I've only seen them come up once, and that was on German E-bay.

If you want 141, buy a whole 141 camera and then add a larger back to do WP or 4x10, etc. There's a sweet 141 F-Metric in the for sale section here right now, if you can come up with $3500+.

[audioexcels]

I think they are a real tough thing to find used. You are likely only to find them attached to a current camera in relatively good condition. I've watched Arca Swiss stuff for about a year now and I think I've only seen them come up once, and that was on German E-bay.

If you want 141, buy a whole 141 camera and then add a larger back to do WP or 4x10, etc. There's a sweet 141 F-Metric in the for sale section here right now, if you can come up with $3500+.

If I could somehow keep $3500 in my bank account I think I would be very happy

Unfortunately, I have not done much X-mas shopping, so I think that will take me down into the $2000 range after all is said and done.

The one posted is indeed gorgeous. It will be difficult to sell because once used, it's not holding any value but to the person that planned to buy a new one and can see enough of a discount off the new price to settle for the as-new one listed.

[Sheldon N]

The one posted is indeed gorgeous. It will be difficult to sell because once used, it's not holding any value but to the person that planned to buy a new one and can see enough of a discount off the new price to settle for the as-new one listed.

I dunno... I think they're pretty price stable on the used market. As expensive as $3500 sounds, a new 141 F-Metric Orbix would cost $4700. OUCH!

[audioexcels]

I dunno... I think they're pretty price stable on the used market. As expensive as $3500 sounds, a new 141 F-Metric Orbix would cost $4700. OUCH!

Yeah...The new price puts my bank account into negative territory