Arca Swiss=WHICH ONE TO CHOOSE??? Alike Cameras to an Arca, please let me know!

[audioexcels]

Thanks for the kind words Henry, but I'm fresh out of Arcas for sale! I did keep myself an Arca 4x5 Field with 141mm rear standard, telecsoping rail, and Orbix. It's a wonderful camera and I really enjoy shooting with it.

However, if the goal is to shoot just whole plate or 5x7 in a lightweight package, I think one would be better served with a wood field camera - Chamonix would be my first choice. This assumes that weight is the primary concern.

There are good reasons to go with an Arca:

- Stability/weight ratio. It's not lighter than a wood field, and it's not sturdier than a big studio camera, but it represents an excellent compromise between the two.
- Precision movements, tactile quality in use.
- Ease of access of movements, no little knobs or fiddling, everything falls right to hand
- If you plan to shoot multiple formats, the Arca is a great platform to build onto due to its modular design.


So, if you are going the Arca route, I'd recommend the following choices...

Use the current F-Line (not the older Basic/Model A/B/C) function carriers and rails. The older cameras are nice, but the F-Line components are just better and worth it if you're going to the trouble of building your own camera. The F-Metric carriers are nice too, but add weight and price just to gain geared shift. The Discovery function carriers are ok, but it would likely be easier to source the F-Line function carriers and rail together on an existing camera and the F-Line carriers are preferable.

Use the 30cm Telescoping rail, not the folding rail. The telescoping rail is good for 425-450mm of extension while the folding rail is only good for about 260mm of extension. The telescoping rail is also lighter and more rigid than a folding rail + 15cm rail extension combo. I like the newer flip lock version of the telescoping rail, it's really slick in operation.

Use the 6x9 (110mm) front standard. The size/weight difference between that and a 171mm standard is pretty significant. Plus, you have to figure in that there will be a lot of extra bellows to go with that larger frame. I had a 171-171 square camera and my 110-141 Field camera side by side, and the size/weight difference is dramatic. A 141mm front standard would be a good compromise, but you'd have a heck of a time finding one of these used.

Now the problems of sourcing all this, and the pricing....

To get the Telescoping Rail + Function carriers, you might as well buy a full camera and sell off the extra parts. A 171-171 square camera with telescoping rail will run you about $1200-1400. Sell off the frames/bellows as a "4x5 Conversion Kit" for $400-600. That will get you your function carriers and rails for around $700-800.

Add a 6x9 Front standard - $700 or $800 new, probably $400-450 used if you could find one. You may be forced to buy a 6x9 compact camera, keep the frame and sell the parts, which wouldn't really be any cheaper.

If you decide to keep one of the 171mm frames to use, add the cost of a Linhof Tech board adapter ($150) and figure that the parts cost would be roughly similar to the 6x9 approach due to having only a bellows and rear frame to sell rather than a full "coversion kit".

Then you need a blank bellows frame for your bellows builder to attach to so that the custom bellows will clip onto the front standard. You could get the actual part or use a lensboard and have it cut out to use as a frame.

Add lensboards ($50 used, $75 new each for 6x9 boards), the cost of your custom bellows ($250?), the cost of your custom build WP back (?), plus the cost of aircraft aluminum dovetail + machining so that the rear standard will clip into the function carrier.

I'd be surprised if you could do it for less than $1500 with a LOT of legwork. And the camera will still weigh in the vicinity of 7-9lbs depending on the construction of the WP back. It makes sense to go with the Arca if you're going to shoot 4x5 and WP with two different back/bellows. However, if you're looking for a light camera just to shoot WP the Chamonix will be lighter, comparable in cost, and much easier to source.

Hope this is of some help!

This is exactly the response I was looking for, as well as what others have said so far. A question about the rail: What is the telescoping rail and/or what does it look like? One camera I was looking at on the used market was an F-line, but it is not a Classic model. However, when I saw Adorama and this other person's auction, these two F-line models were similar, but different to the one I have been looking at. But when comparing it to the newest ones, and after knowing what the lensboard size is (171), it seems to be something that was just prior to the Classic series as it seems to almost have pieces of the Classic, but does not look entirely similar. Let me show a photo of the rail section and maybe with this poor shot of it, you can make out what exactly it is. See photo attachment.

Thanks Sheldon and others!!!

[audioexcels]

Hi AE,

Yup, the Canucks are "starting" to show some element of life... but, when the playoffs come along, they'll fall back asleep! :>)

Cheers

Just like the Sharks...they'll likely pick up some key players and try to win it OR just be cheap (I think they have the lowest cap in the league or close to it) and play to lose. This team is a 2nd or possibly 3rd rounder at best. Canucks barely making it looks like a 1st rounder.

I agree about the scarce nature of Arca stuff and that service for a 5X7 conversion is absurd. I have seen some amazing outfits go on auction in Europe this past month, but the EUR is crazy high and it totally kills any possibility of me contending with the Europeans. They love their Arcas and they bid extraneous amounts in US dollars. And now the EUR is basically 1.5 to the dollar which is 20 cents up from only 3 months ago. Dunno why anyone would consider coming here to live when even the Canuck buck is worth more!!! I don't know what is more amazing to me, the Canuck buck or the AU Buck...they are amazing to me in how much shift they have had...one can say the EUR has done the same and then some, but go back not very long ago and the CAD has really smoked the house on the market.

I think I have to just wait it out and find that Compact or go the Sheldon route and find my pieces as I go. I have plenty of time to find the parts so I can wait.

For anyone interested, there's a Monolith on Ebay right now...But it looks choppy, and has a missing knob. May be good for those looking to upgrade to the Monolith blocks...

[audioexcels]

Anyone want to give it a shot as to what this railing is and what model in the F-line evolution this one would be?

[Eric James]

Sheldon, Thanks for the informative post! Would you mind elaborating on your bellows choice for your 141-110 rig? If I remember correctly you shoot with 90-300mm lenses. I use the same focal-length range, but I would like to extend that range from 75-450mm. Would I need two or three bellows? Can you shoot 90-300mm with a single bellows? Anyone's input is appreciated.

[David Karp]

That rail in the photo looks just like my 30cm telescoping rail.

[Norm Buchanan]

Sheldon, Thanks for the informative post! Would you mind elaborating on your bellows choice for your 141-110 rig? If I remember correctly you shoot with 90-300mm lenses. I use the same focal-length range, but I would like to extend that range from 75-450mm. Would I need two or three bellows? Can you shoot 90-300mm with a single bellows? Anyone's input is appreciated.

Hi Eric,

I have the F-Field (141-110) and I shoot 90-300 with the bellows that came with the camera. I use a 15cm extension rail in addition to the 25cm collapsible rail. I think I am at the limit for focal length for that bellows.

N.

[Eric James]

Thanks Norm,

If I buy an AS 141-110 I think I will get the rail that Sheldon recommends.

Are these 141-110 cameras pieced together or, as you suggest, purchased as a kit?

Could you point toward the product number for your bellows, and where it was purchase?

Eric

[Norm Buchanan]

Hi Eric,

I purchased mine as a kit, but the Arcas are designed to be quite modular, which is one of the reasons I bought one. If you want to piece one together it would be possible, but it might be much quicker to get a kit. I bought mine from Badger Graphics:

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/c...ct_detail&p=11

The part number for the bellows was not on the invoice but Jeff at Badger is very knowledgeable and will be able to tell you exactly what you want to know.

Hope this helps,
N.

[Robert Fisher]

Eric, although Jeff at Badger is a great guy to do business with, Rod at Photomark in Phoenix is THE Arca expert (IMO) in the USA. He also actually has Arcas in stock (sometimes).

FWIW, I have had numerous Ebony cameras but my F (141) Metric Orbix is IMO vastly superior in countless ways. Arca's are a joy to work with in the field.

[Sheldon N]

audioexcels -

That rail is the 30cm telescoping rail (as David indicated). You flip the levers show in the photo and each small upper 15cm segment slides in the lower rail track, allowing you to quickly create more extension and then re-lock into position.

The "Compact" designation refers to a camera using the 30cm folding rail, which is limited to maybe 260mm of extension (unless you buy a separate extension rail).

F-Line Classic is the official term, but is often interchanged with just plain "F-Line". The Classic, Basic, Metric designations all refer to the function carriers. Check out the Precision Camera Works website for detail photos of each function carrier. By looking at a picture of the function carrier you can tell what model it is. The one you are looking for (Classic) is the one with the duck-bill style clamp for the shift - same as shown in your example photo.


Eric - I have the stock 110-141mm leather field bellows. They are good for lenses from ultra-wide (47/58mm) all the way out to a 360mm lens. I've measured almost 380-390mm of extension if you go straight with no movements. It would handle a 360mm with limited movements and only distant focusing. A 300mm lens can use basically full movements and focus reasonably close.

The 110-141mm bellows come with 11 pleats/folds in the leather. The older 110-171mm leather "Field" bellows comes with 7 pleats, and is really only good for about 260-280mm of extension.

If you wanted to use a 450mm lens, you'd need to get the 50cm long synthetic "Field" bellows, and swap back and forth in the field. Or, you could get a top hat board made that would give you the little bit of extra extension you needed and use the leather 110-141 bellows.

The 110-141mm field comes with a 30cm folding rail as part of the package. To get enough extension to use a 300mm lens, you need to purchase the 15cm Monorail Extension II for roughly $300. I find that the folding rail + rail extension option is actually less preferable to the 30cm telescoping rail. Read this thread for all the pros/cons and some photos of the rails.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=27514

If you are buying new, I would ask if they will include the telescoping rail instead of the folding rail. Pricing should be very similar, if not identical. I bought my camera from Rod @ Photomark, and he should have both rails in stock.

If you can swing it, be sure to add the Micrometric Orbix to your order. It is a dream!