The Razzle in Action (Portraits)

[Photomax]

Does it really matter that the images need to shout "taken with a large format camera"???? All we see here are compressed jpegs anyway.

What is missing in this discussion is that we have a young guy here, Ash, who is pushing the boundaries by using different formats, films, cameras, techniques, chemistry etc. How many students are using anything but digital these days anyway?

The end photo is one thing, how the photo came to be is all about the photographer. I shot the US Open tennis tournament for years. Most of the pros used the latest trendy gear. And then there were those that used ND filtered Hasselblads, panoramic cameras, and cheap Polaroids whose developing prints would get manipulated with tooth picks. Ash has a new 4x5 camera that can be used hand held which is pretty cool. I am sure that he used this camera in this interesting situation to see "how it went." To my eye it went very well. Some might say that these online images don't look like a traditional Ansel Adams moonrise print, but that's missing the point, no?

Max

[sparq]

O/T: I am truly fascinated how many caring self-appointed saviors we have here. Some people just can't stop acting on behalf of someone else's good, can they?

[Ash]

I am thankful for the mix of people here. I guess the balance is maintained - we are lucky Frank and other critical members are here otherwise it would be as bad as....say.... DeviantArt; "Hey great pic. Can't wait to see more. xxxxxxx" etc.

I didn't manage to get GREAT shots, but as I said, they aren't too bad for a first time at a fairly tame protest march. The people were moving slow, there was silence during the walk, and the shouting was shortlived outside Downing Street (where the Prime Minister lives). For such a tame protest, I had to battle my way through about 20 other photographers, 15 of which had digital, and 5 were part of the group I went with!

[Colin Robertson]

Wow. Lots of opinion. So . . back to look at the pictures.
First, I DO like them. Ash has been posting stuff here for a while, quite courageously I think (there are some regulars here who REALLY know their stuff). For a while I have been thinking that he could do some mentoring in the darkroom, but now here he is with smooth, well developed negs. Great. His 'protest' shots work- he's in close, we see faces and expressions, we get mood. In the real world- could we all do it?
Now, Frank's comments. The only weblink on this forum I visit on a regular basis is, yes, frankpetronio.com (sorry others). I shoot still-life and landscape for fun.
Frank is a people-shooter and has used more cameras than some folk have hot dinners, so I reckon he's well worth listening to.
Cameras are tools. A tool should be fit for purpose. He's right to question the selection of 5x4 for this use, but, there are other issues. It's like working out. Conquer the impossible, and the difficult becomes easy. If Ash can shoot street stuff well on 5x4, which might be overkill, how easy will small camera shooting be? Also, I have a (purely personal) thing about volume shooting. On another forum I visit I hear amateur shooters talking about shooting 6000 frames in a month. Jesus christ.
When do they even look at them?? Going out to shoot knowing you have a limited number of sheets at your disposal is DISCIPLINE, and DISCIPLINE is GOOD.
Okay.
Shoot me down.

[jetcode]

When dealing with a subjective such as art who truly has the knowledge of what is right or wrong?

[Photomax]

Colin,

Shoot you down? Why? Some great points there...

Photography is not always about the result. Quite often it is about the experience of the photographic outing. A fews back I visited some great towns in the south. On a walking day's outing in Charleston, SC I decided to walk with a Pentax LX & the awesome SMC 40mm/2.8 "Pancake lens". This being a really nice film camera I decided to shoot pictures in a way that the contact sheet would be the end result. My intention was to create an enlarged contact sheet. I wanted each exposure to be a singular, unique photo, so no multiple images or "working the situation" was allowed etc. The resulting 20x24 "contact sheet" was pretty cool. Was each image great? Hell no! But the experiment was great fun, and a valuable learning experience as well.

What Ash did/does seems to fit into this as well. Some serious photographic artists will shoot the Half Dome at Yosemite with a 20 inch plate camera and some with a plastic Holga...

[Ash]

Oh and just for the record, I had to develop those negatives one at a time in a Paterson orbital. It took me from about 9:30pm til well after 1am. THAT is discipline

[Asher Kelman]

he(we) need to discover it for himself, then it stays in forever. he (we) tend to forget what someone else has told us quickly.

here are a few searching "winogrand peace demonstration"

Yes, these are amazing! A great choice of images illustrating your point.

However, Garry Winogrand did have more experience, took a lot more pictures with his Leica, often 10 rolls of Tri-X at a time. This is one great man. Ash by contrast has a new camera and can work only slowly.

Winogrand would not have wanted Ash to follow in his footsteps, rather be an ordinary person and find his own path. However, you are very helpful in showing the heights that can be reached by dedication to form and content.

I believe, contrary to Winograds own strong belief, that he might have omitted a subconscious drive, (that we might recognize) which buttresses these images: metaphor based on our own rich experience and mythology.

To me, the 3 Winogrand pictures you selected are supported and boosted in our minds by images we already know: Trotsky as political speaker in Russia, the Crucifixion and the apocolypse fear of the nuclear world.

Every so often we need a kick to remind us of what is possible. Thanks Adrian!

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

On another forum I visit I hear amateur shooters talking about shooting 6000 frames in a month. Jesus christ.
When do they even look at them?? Going out to shoot knowing you have a limited number of sheets at your disposal is DISCIPLINE, and DISCIPLINE is GOOD.
Okay.
Shoot me down.

Good points on choosing the right tool!

With his Lecia, Winograd left 1/3 of a million images not developed or sorted through!

Every 3 outings 1,000 shots!! A potential of 10,000 a month! Of course he didn't get to go through everything. In his mind I guess he knew what he had.

His selection may have been which rolls of film to develop! I wonder?

Asher

[Ash]

I saw a video showing Winogrand's draws full of undeveloped film. It was a moment that made me realise the worth of both the photo's you take, and the time you have to develop and print them.